[UK-TUG] Howard's motion: Distribute funds AND Continue UK-TUG

[Jay Hammond]

Thank you David.

I agree.


I think the SGM is going to feel very short. I am pleased that the 
substantive issue,  Dissolution / continuation is being discussed by 
members in this forum. Please don't get diverted by side issues.  Focus 
on what UKTUG is going to do and how it is going to achieve that.

I'd warn you that this forum  is not the SGM, and that you may expect 
opinions to vary. And motivations. And interpretations of motions. At 
the meeting, as chair, I shall give some notes on the motions. I will 
say it is the wording of the motions that counts, not the proposers 
intentions. I'll state  how the committee is going to interpret the 
motions. Don't make your mind up until you see that interpretation.

Since you don't know the voting procedure, I think it is premature  to 
express a vote. Opinions are welcome of course. Reasoned ones, even more so.

I don't know why Jonathan Fine seeks to start the (voting at the) SGM 
early under his own rules.  It is not a cooperative or supportive act. 
It may not work in your interests.  Please don't get sucked into that.

I urge you to vote, when the time comes,  for dissolution, not 
continuation. I can't urge you  from inside the SGM, as I'll be chairing 
it.

I think Howard's motion is clear that some form of continuation of UKTUG 
is demanded. As to achieving that practically, that is worth debating if 
continuation is your chosen option.

Jonathan Fine has posted here that he sees no prospect of UKTUG 
continuing into 2022 because, even if you vote to continue (as he now 
urges!) he sees no prospect of a committee coming about for 2022. I 
agree with him.  There's no prospect of a useful future committee.

I have repeatedly (over the last two years) asked members to step up and 
actually do something towards keeping UKTUG going if that is what they 
want. No member has stepped forward to do so.  In 2019, or early 2020, 
Two members did propose they discuss a plan. I put them in touch.  I 
still have not heard the outcome of any discussions that might have 
taken place. I conclude that the membership is not prepared to do the 
work necessary to keep UKTUG going. Well, nor am I.

I believe it would be irresponsible for members to vote that the 
committee  continue UKTUG if they (the members) are not prepared to make 
the effort to help UKTUG continue. Not just irresponsible, also damaging 
to UKTUG. To continue without a potent committee, dooms UKTUG to an 
impotent existence, not  able to spend its money, nor to have  a 
constitutionally acceptable committee  that could organise meetings at 
which it might acknowledge its plight and shut itself down.  The 
constitution is a little more optimistic, but how to recruit committee 
members from a membership who will not serve?  It's my judgement that 
this is the last chance UKTUG will have to shut itself down. And that it 
should while it still can.

I can't speak on behalf of the existing committee as a whole. I'm just 1 
human, in less than perfect health. I can't run UKTUG on my own, even if 
I had an ego big enough to want to. I tell you plainly I will not be 
implementing Howard's motion. It's my belief that this attitude is 
shared by multiple members of the committee.  I won't be standing to be 
on the committee that runs 2021/2022, should Howard's motion be passed. 
That probably applies to most of the committee. But they will speak for 
themselves.  I believe the proper action for a committee member who 
refuses to enact a motion is to resign. I'd feel I had to do so if 
Howard's motion passes. Whether I should continue in post long enough to 
fulfil other responsibilities to UKTUG such as help organise an AGM, I 
do not know.

Jay Hammond


On 24/10/2021 15:37, David Carlisle wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, 24 Oct 2021 at 14:44, Jonathan Fine <jfine2358 at gmail.com 
> <mailto:jfine2358 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Hi
>
>     I fully support Howard Vie's motion. Some wish for our dormant
>     funds to be applied to promote and develop TeX. Some wish that UK
>     TUG continues. Howard's motion shows that these two wholesome
>     wishes are consistent. This solves many problems.
>
>
> This is voting for yet another year of inaction.   It solves no 
> problems at all. The subject of winding up or not has been essentially 
> the only subject at the last two AGM (and sporadically for the last 20 
> years)  There is no indication of who would be on such a committee or 
> what any such constitution would say, just some hope that these 
> unnamed persons can find something acceptable to write down.
>
> We should wind up UKTUG. As has already been shown if there are useful 
> activities that can be carried on, distributing DVDs, a UK based tex 
> email list, the old uktug FAQ,  or whatever, they can be done without 
> any need for UKTUG to be kept going for another year and carrying on 
> the kind of pointless pseudo-legal discussions that have blocked this 
> list for the last month, and which have made the internal uktug 
> committee discussions largely dysfunctional as far as I can tell (and 
> was my experience when I was on the committee)
>
> We should wait until the voting procedures are announced before 
> deciding on which motions to vote for and whether it makes sense to 
> vote for more than one. It would have been better really to have had 
> just one motion (Jay's, on behalf of the committee) to wind up and 
> then we could have had a simple yes/no vote but we are where we are.
>
> David
>
>
>
>     Here is the text of Howard's motion:
>     ===
>     That UK-TUG continue to function, with the proviso that
>     (a) the Committee draft an updated Constitution to better
>     reflect outcomes achievable by the group, and arranges for the
>     members to consider this update as required by the current 
>     Constitution;
>     (b) the Committee reduce asset holdings in line with part
>     (a), donating dormant resources to TUG and DANTE
>     ===
>
>     I will be voting for this motion. If you also support this motion,
>     please say so on this list. Passing this motion will give both
>     sides something to celebrate!
>
>     Happy TeXing
>
>     Jonathan
>
-- 
Email use jay at jjnr.uk

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