[tex-eplain] boldface greek symbols
Gérald Tenenbaum
gerald.tenenbaum at univ-lorraine.fr
Sun Aug 27 22:49:41 CEST 2023
Thank you very much for your help.
eplain is capable to include some LaTeX packages, but apparently not
those related to fonts.
Regards,
Gérald
Laurence.Finston at gmx.net a écrit le 27/8/23 à 21:02 :
> > My theory is that it has something to do with the PostScript version
> of this font [...]
> It's also possible that something necessary wasn't done with this font
> because it was either only intended for use as a textfont, or because
> it is rarely used and nobody thought of it, or both. This seems
> plausible to me because it's only available at 10pt. Of course, I
> might just be missing something here.
> *Gesendet:* Sonntag, 27. August 2023 um 20:37 Uhr
> *Von:* Laurence.Finston at gmx.net
> *An:* "Gérald Tenenbaum" <gerald.tenenbaum at univ-lorraine.fr>
> *Cc:* "tex-eplain TUG" <tex-eplain at tug.org>
> *Betreff:* Aw: Re: [tex-eplain] boldface greek symbols
> > However it does not seem to work with \vartheta :
> You're right, it doesn't. It works with some characters and macros
> and not with others. For example, this works:
> $\gb{\Delta_\mathchar'010}$
> However, this doesn't: $\gb{\Delta_\mathchar'020}$
> It would appear that some of the characters are missing from the font
> and that they are being replaced with characters from the default math
> font. This doesn't make sense to me because I ran `tex testfont' on
> cmmib10 and I can see all of the characters in the table (see attachment).
> This also works: {\gbeight\char35}, but it doesn't help in math
> mode. You could put it in an hbox, but that's what we were trying to
> avoid.
> It seems to affect the lowercase letters. I don't understand this.
> It doesn't work with pdftex either.
> My theory is that it has something to do with the PostScript version
> of this font and the next thing I would test, if I wanted to test
> this, which I don't, is to generate the bit-map version and persuade
> TeX to load it instead of the PDF version. I've done this recently
> for other fonts but I don't remember exactly what I had to do. I'm not
> sure whether it was sufficient to have the font files in the working
> directory or if I had to change TEXMF.config or whatever that file is
> called, or change the TEXMF environment variable. Far better to ask
> if somebody knows why some of the characters appear to be missing. I'm
> afraid that's the extent of my knowledge on this subject. Of course,
> it could be something simpler.
> *Gesendet:* Sonntag, 27. August 2023 um 20:11 Uhr
> *Von:* Laurence.Finston at gmx.net
> *An:* "Gérald Tenenbaum" <gerald.tenenbaum at univ-lorraine.fr>
> *Betreff:* Aw: Re: [tex-eplain] boldface greek symbols
> > \def\gp{\fam\gpfam\textfont1=\tengp}
> This is still wrong. This is what it should look like:
> \def\gb{\fam\gbfam\gbten}
> You are setting \textfont1, which refers to family 1, not family 9,
> and you shouldn't be setting \textfont for any family in the
> definition of \gb (my example) or \gp (yours). Nor do I think that
> you have to define \gth. \vartheta should work without having to be
> defined and you shouldn't need to use an \hbox. That's the whole
> point of defining a new family.
> I think it would be helpful if you worked through my example carefully
> and if necessary referred to The TeXbook to understand what it does.
> *Gesendet:* Sonntag, 27. August 2023 um 19:57 Uhr
> *Von:* "Gérald Tenenbaum" <gerald.tenenbaum at univ-lorraine.fr>
> *An:* Laurence.Finston at gmx.net
> *Cc:* "Eplain" <tex-eplain at tug.org>
> *Betreff:* Re: [tex-eplain] boldface greek symbols
> Thanks.
> However it does not seem to work with \vartheta :
>
> \input eplain
>
> \font\tengp=cmmib10
> \newfam\gpfam
> \textfont\gpfam=\tengp
> \def\gp{\fam\gpfam\textfont1=\tengp}
> \def\gth{\hbox{$\gp\vartheta$}}
> %$\gth\neq\vartheta$
> \bigskip
>
> \newfam\gbfam
> \font\gbten=cmmib10
> \font\gbeight=cmmib10 scaled 800
> \font\gbseven=cmmib10 scaled 700
> \textfont\gbfam=\gbten
> \scriptfont\gbfam=\gbeight
> \scriptscriptfont\gbfam=\gbseven
> \def\gb{\fam\gbfam\gbten}
> \def\grth{{\gb\vartheta}}
>
> $\grth\neq\gth$
>
> Laurence.Finston at gmx.net a écrit le 27/8/23 à 18:09 :
>
> > This is wrong. You're resetting \textfont1. You need to set
> \textfont\gpfam.
> Like I said, \gbfam and \gbifam (in this case) are numbers:
> \tracingonline=1
> \showthe\gbifam
> \showthe\gbfam
> -->
> This is TeX, Version 3.141592653 (TeX Live 2022/dev/Debian)
> (preloaded format=tex)
> (./ttemp.tex
> > 8.
> l.32 \showthe\gbifam
>
> ?
> > 9.
> l.34 \showthe\gbfam
> They are thus family 8 and 9, respectively and \textfont\gbifam
> and \textfont\gbfam are equivalent to \textfont8 and \textfont9,
> respectively.
> *Gesendet:* Sonntag, 27. August 2023 um 17:48 Uhr
> *Von:* Laurence.Finston at gmx.net
> *An:* "Gérald Tenenbaum" <gerald.tenenbaum at univ-lorraine.fr>
> *Cc:* "Eplain" <tex-eplain at tug.org>
> *Betreff:* Aw: Re: [tex-eplain] boldface greek symbols
> %% Normal italic:
> \newfam\gbifam
> \font\gbiten=cmmi10
> \font\gbieight=cmmi10 scaled 800
> \font\gbiseven=cmmi10 scaled 700
> \def\gbi{\fam\gbifam\gbiten}
> \textfont\gbifam=\gbiten
> \scriptfont\gbifam=\gbieight
> \scriptscriptfont\gbifam=\gbiseven
> %% Bold italic:
> \newfam\gbfam
> \font\gbten=cmmib10
> \font\gbeight=cmmib10 scaled 800
> \font\gbseven=cmmib10 scaled 700
> \textfont\gbfam=\gbten
> \scriptfont\gbfam=\gbeight
> \scriptscriptfont\gbfam=\gbseven
> \def\gb{\fam\gbfam\gbten}
> Normal Italic: $\gbi{\Delta_\Omega}$
> Bold Italic: $\gb{\Delta_\Omega}$
> \bye
> See ttemp.dvi (attached)
> *Gesendet:* Sonntag, 27. August 2023 um 17:19 Uhr
> *Von:* Laurence.Finston at gmx.net
> *An:* "Gérald Tenenbaum" <gerald.tenenbaum at univ-lorraine.fr>
> *Betreff:* Aw: Re: [tex-eplain] boldface greek symbols
> > \def\gp{\fam\gpfam\textfont1=\tengp}
> This is wrong. You're resetting \textfont1. You need to set
> \textfont\gpfam.
> If you create a new family, you shouldn't need to write macros for
> the individual characters. They should be in the proper positions
> in the font, if the font is encoded using the conventions of plain
> TeX.
> *Gesendet:* Sonntag, 27. August 2023 um 15:44 Uhr
> *Von:* "Gérald Tenenbaum" <gerald.tenenbaum at univ-lorraine.fr>
> *An:* Laurence.Finston at gmx.net
> *Cc:* "Eplain" <tex-eplain at tug.org>
> *Betreff:* Re: [tex-eplain] boldface greek symbols
> Thank you.
>
> Here is indeed a working example
> \input eplain
> \font\tengp=cmmib10
> \newfam\gpfam
> \textfont\gpfam=\tengp
> \def\gp{\fam\gpfam\textfont1=\tengp}
> \def\gth{\hbox{$\gp\vartheta$}}
> $\gth\neq\vartheta$
> \end
>
> However this would require distinct definitions for the same
> letter in distinct sizes.
> The behavior therefore radically departs from standard use in
> which you can do, for instance,
>
> \font\tenscaln=eusm10
> \font\sevenscaln=eusm10 scaled 700
> \newfam\scalnfam\textfont\scalnfam=\tenscaln\scriptfont\scalnfam=\sevenscaln
> \def\scaln{\fam\scalnfam\tenscaln}%
> \def\scal{\scaln}
> \def\A{{\scaln A}}
> \def\B{{\scaln B}}
> $\A_\B$
>
> Regards,
>
> Gérald
>
> Laurence.Finston at gmx.net a écrit le 27/8/23 à 15:13 :
>
> First, you define a new family using \newfam. This takes care
> of the problem that Philip brought up, because your new
> \boldgreek or \bg or whatever macro will change the family
> within its scope. I think you can have 11 families or so and
> plain tex only uses 7 or something. I don't remember the
> details. It would be like this:
> \newfam\boldgreekfam
> \def\boldgreek{\fam\boldgreekfam\tenboldgreek}
> \newfam just assigns a number. If you know the number, you
> could use it instead of \boldgreekfam, but it's better not to.
> Then you set \textfont, \scriptfont and \scriptscriptfont.
> You might need to use scaling if this font isn't available in
> the sizes you need.
> For example, \font\fiveboldgreek=cmboldgreek10 scaled 700.
> I haven't tested this, so you may have to fiddle with it
> and/or refer to _The TeXbook_ (never a bad idea).
> That is my attempt to answer your question. My opinion is
> that it might be difficult to distinguish bold Greek
> characters in subscripts from ordinary Greek characters and
> that \bf and \rm are meant to be the exceptions rather than
> the rule. However, to each his/her own.
> If you have any problems, I'll be happy to try to make a
> working example.
> *Gesendet:* Sonntag, 27. August 2023 um 12:44 Uhr
> *Von:* "Gérald Tenenbaum" <gerald.tenenbaum at univ-lorraine.fr>
> *An:* Laurence.Finston at gmx.net
> *Cc:* "Eplain" <tex-eplain at tug.org>
> *Betreff:* Re: Aw: Re: [tex-eplain] boldface greek symbols
> So how would it work with bold greek?
> When I tried this I get an error until I insert \hboxes
>
> Laurence.Finston at gmx.net a écrit le 27/8/23 à 12:12 :
>
> > Can't one design a setting working like \bf or \it ?
> Sure. This is how \bf is defined in plain.tex:
> \newfam\bffam \def\bf{\fam\bffam\tenbf} % \bf is family 6
> \textfont\bffam=\tenbf \scriptfont\bffam=\sevenbf
> \scriptscriptfont\bffam=\fivebf
> *Gesendet:* Sonntag, 27. August 2023 um 11:41 Uhr
> *Von:* "Gérald Tenenbaum" <gerald.tenenbaum at univ-lorraine.fr>
> *An:* "Philip Taylor (Hellenic Institute)"
> <P.Taylor at Hellenic-Institute.Uk>
> *Cc:* "Eplain" <tex-eplain at tug.org>
> *Betreff:* Re: [tex-eplain] boldface greek symbols
> Thanks.
> Yes it suffices, but I also need these boldface letters in
> subscripts.
> I am puzzled by the necessity of using \hbox. Can't one
> design a setting working like \bf or \it ?
> Regards,
>
> Gérald
>
> Philip Taylor (Hellenic Institute) a écrit le 27/8/23 à
> 11:21 :
>
> You don't appear to be using \gpfam, Gérald — will not
> the following suffice ?
>
>
> \font \tengp = cmmib10
> \def \gp {\textfont 1 = \tengp}
> \def \gth {\hbox {$\gp \vartheta $}}
> $\gth \neq \vartheta $
> \end
>
> --
> /Philip Taylor/
>
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