[tex-eplain] boldface greek symbols

Gérald Tenenbaum gerald.tenenbaum at univ-lorraine.fr
Sun Aug 27 22:49:41 CEST 2023


Thank you very much for your help.
eplain is capable to include some LaTeX packages, but apparently not 
those related to fonts.
Regards,

Gérald

Laurence.Finston at gmx.net a écrit le 27/8/23 à 21:02 :
> > My theory is that it has something to do with the PostScript version 
> of this font [...]
> It's also possible that something necessary wasn't done with this font 
> because it was either only intended for use as a textfont, or because 
> it is rarely used and nobody thought of it, or both.  This seems 
> plausible to me because it's only available at 10pt.  Of course, I 
> might just be missing something here.
> *Gesendet:* Sonntag, 27. August 2023 um 20:37 Uhr
> *Von:* Laurence.Finston at gmx.net
> *An:* "Gérald Tenenbaum" <gerald.tenenbaum at univ-lorraine.fr>
> *Cc:* "tex-eplain TUG" <tex-eplain at tug.org>
> *Betreff:* Aw: Re: [tex-eplain] boldface greek symbols
> > However it does not seem to work with \vartheta :
> You're right, it doesn't.  It works with some characters and macros 
> and not with others.  For example, this works:
> $\gb{\Delta_\mathchar'010}$
> However, this doesn't:  $\gb{\Delta_\mathchar'020}$
> It would appear that some of the characters are missing from the font 
> and that they are being replaced with characters from the default math 
> font.  This doesn't make sense to me because I ran `tex testfont' on 
> cmmib10 and I can see all of the characters in the table (see attachment).
> This also works:  {\gbeight\char35}, but it doesn't help in math 
> mode.  You could put it in an hbox, but that's what we were trying to 
> avoid.
> It seems to affect the lowercase letters.  I don't understand this.  
> It doesn't work with pdftex either.
> My theory is that it has something to do with the PostScript version 
> of this font and the next thing I would test, if I wanted to test 
> this, which I don't, is to generate the bit-map version and persuade 
> TeX to load it instead of the PDF version.  I've done this recently 
> for other fonts but I don't remember exactly what I had to do. I'm not 
> sure whether it was sufficient to have the font files in the working 
> directory or if I had to change TEXMF.config or whatever that file is 
> called, or change the TEXMF environment variable.  Far better to ask 
> if somebody knows why some of the characters appear to be missing. I'm 
> afraid that's the extent of my knowledge on this subject.  Of course, 
> it could be something simpler.
> *Gesendet:* Sonntag, 27. August 2023 um 20:11 Uhr
> *Von:* Laurence.Finston at gmx.net
> *An:* "Gérald Tenenbaum" <gerald.tenenbaum at univ-lorraine.fr>
> *Betreff:* Aw: Re: [tex-eplain] boldface greek symbols
> > \def\gp{\fam\gpfam\textfont1=\tengp}
> This is still wrong.  This is what it should look like:
> \def\gb{\fam\gbfam\gbten}
> You are setting \textfont1, which refers to family 1, not family 9, 
> and you shouldn't be setting \textfont for any family in the 
> definition of \gb (my example) or \gp (yours).  Nor do I think that 
> you have to define \gth.  \vartheta should work without having to be 
> defined and you shouldn't need to use an \hbox.  That's the whole 
> point of defining a new family.
> I think it would be helpful if you worked through my example carefully 
> and if necessary referred to The TeXbook to understand what it does.
> *Gesendet:* Sonntag, 27. August 2023 um 19:57 Uhr
> *Von:* "Gérald Tenenbaum" <gerald.tenenbaum at univ-lorraine.fr>
> *An:* Laurence.Finston at gmx.net
> *Cc:* "Eplain" <tex-eplain at tug.org>
> *Betreff:* Re: [tex-eplain] boldface greek symbols
> Thanks.
> However it does not seem to work with \vartheta :
>
> \input eplain
>
> \font\tengp=cmmib10
> \newfam\gpfam
> \textfont\gpfam=\tengp
> \def\gp{\fam\gpfam\textfont1=\tengp}
> \def\gth{\hbox{$\gp\vartheta$}}
> %$\gth\neq\vartheta$
> \bigskip
>
> \newfam\gbfam
> \font\gbten=cmmib10
> \font\gbeight=cmmib10 scaled 800
> \font\gbseven=cmmib10 scaled 700
> \textfont\gbfam=\gbten
> \scriptfont\gbfam=\gbeight
> \scriptscriptfont\gbfam=\gbseven
> \def\gb{\fam\gbfam\gbten}
> \def\grth{{\gb\vartheta}}
>
> $\grth\neq\gth$
>
> Laurence.Finston at gmx.net a écrit le 27/8/23 à 18:09 :
>
>     > This is wrong.  You're resetting \textfont1.  You need to set
>     \textfont\gpfam.
>     Like I said, \gbfam and \gbifam (in this case) are numbers:
>     \tracingonline=1
>     \showthe\gbifam
>     \showthe\gbfam
>     -->
>     This is TeX, Version 3.141592653 (TeX Live 2022/dev/Debian)
>     (preloaded format=tex)
>     (./ttemp.tex
>     > 8.
>     l.32 \showthe\gbifam
>
>     ?
>     > 9.
>     l.34 \showthe\gbfam
>     They are thus family 8 and 9, respectively and \textfont\gbifam
>     and \textfont\gbfam are equivalent to \textfont8 and \textfont9,
>     respectively.
>     *Gesendet:* Sonntag, 27. August 2023 um 17:48 Uhr
>     *Von:* Laurence.Finston at gmx.net
>     *An:* "Gérald Tenenbaum" <gerald.tenenbaum at univ-lorraine.fr>
>     *Cc:* "Eplain" <tex-eplain at tug.org>
>     *Betreff:* Aw: Re: [tex-eplain] boldface greek symbols
>     %% Normal italic:
>     \newfam\gbifam
>     \font\gbiten=cmmi10
>     \font\gbieight=cmmi10 scaled 800
>     \font\gbiseven=cmmi10 scaled 700
>     \def\gbi{\fam\gbifam\gbiten}
>     \textfont\gbifam=\gbiten
>     \scriptfont\gbifam=\gbieight
>     \scriptscriptfont\gbifam=\gbiseven
>     %% Bold italic:
>     \newfam\gbfam
>     \font\gbten=cmmib10
>     \font\gbeight=cmmib10 scaled 800
>     \font\gbseven=cmmib10 scaled 700
>     \textfont\gbfam=\gbten
>     \scriptfont\gbfam=\gbeight
>     \scriptscriptfont\gbfam=\gbseven
>     \def\gb{\fam\gbfam\gbten}
>     Normal Italic:  $\gbi{\Delta_\Omega}$
>     Bold Italic:  $\gb{\Delta_\Omega}$
>     \bye
>     See ttemp.dvi (attached)
>     *Gesendet:* Sonntag, 27. August 2023 um 17:19 Uhr
>     *Von:* Laurence.Finston at gmx.net
>     *An:* "Gérald Tenenbaum" <gerald.tenenbaum at univ-lorraine.fr>
>     *Betreff:* Aw: Re: [tex-eplain] boldface greek symbols
>     > \def\gp{\fam\gpfam\textfont1=\tengp}
>     This is wrong.  You're resetting \textfont1.  You need to set
>     \textfont\gpfam.
>     If you create a new family, you shouldn't need to write macros for
>     the individual characters.  They should be in the proper positions
>     in the font, if the font is encoded using the conventions of plain
>     TeX.
>     *Gesendet:* Sonntag, 27. August 2023 um 15:44 Uhr
>     *Von:* "Gérald Tenenbaum" <gerald.tenenbaum at univ-lorraine.fr>
>     *An:* Laurence.Finston at gmx.net
>     *Cc:* "Eplain" <tex-eplain at tug.org>
>     *Betreff:* Re: [tex-eplain] boldface greek symbols
>     Thank you.
>
>     Here is indeed a working example
>     \input eplain
>     \font\tengp=cmmib10
>     \newfam\gpfam
>     \textfont\gpfam=\tengp
>     \def\gp{\fam\gpfam\textfont1=\tengp}
>     \def\gth{\hbox{$\gp\vartheta$}}
>     $\gth\neq\vartheta$
>     \end
>
>     However this would require distinct definitions for the same
>     letter in distinct sizes.
>     The behavior therefore radically departs from standard use in
>     which you can do, for instance,
>
>     \font\tenscaln=eusm10
>     \font\sevenscaln=eusm10 scaled 700
>     \newfam\scalnfam\textfont\scalnfam=\tenscaln\scriptfont\scalnfam=\sevenscaln
>     \def\scaln{\fam\scalnfam\tenscaln}%
>     \def\scal{\scaln}
>     \def\A{{\scaln A}}
>     \def\B{{\scaln B}}
>     $\A_\B$
>
>     Regards,
>
>     Gérald
>
>     Laurence.Finston at gmx.net a écrit le 27/8/23 à 15:13 :
>
>         First, you define a new family using \newfam.  This takes care
>         of the problem that Philip brought up, because your new
>         \boldgreek or \bg or whatever macro will change the family
>         within its scope.  I think you can have 11 families or so and
>         plain tex only uses 7 or something.  I don't remember the
>         details.  It would be like this:
>         \newfam\boldgreekfam
>         \def\boldgreek{\fam\boldgreekfam\tenboldgreek}
>         \newfam just assigns a number.  If you know the number, you
>         could use it instead of \boldgreekfam, but it's better not to.
>         Then you set \textfont, \scriptfont and \scriptscriptfont. 
>         You might need to use scaling if this font isn't available in
>         the sizes you need.
>         For example, \font\fiveboldgreek=cmboldgreek10 scaled 700.
>         I haven't tested this, so you may have to fiddle with it
>         and/or refer to _The TeXbook_ (never a bad idea).
>         That is my attempt to answer your question.  My opinion is
>         that it might be difficult to distinguish bold Greek
>         characters in subscripts from ordinary Greek characters and
>         that \bf and \rm are meant to be the exceptions rather than
>         the rule.  However, to each his/her own.
>         If you have any problems, I'll be happy to try to make a
>         working example.
>         *Gesendet:* Sonntag, 27. August 2023 um 12:44 Uhr
>         *Von:* "Gérald Tenenbaum" <gerald.tenenbaum at univ-lorraine.fr>
>         *An:* Laurence.Finston at gmx.net
>         *Cc:* "Eplain" <tex-eplain at tug.org>
>         *Betreff:* Re: Aw: Re: [tex-eplain] boldface greek symbols
>         So how would it work with bold greek?
>         When I tried this I get an error until I insert \hboxes
>
>         Laurence.Finston at gmx.net a écrit le 27/8/23 à 12:12 :
>
>             > Can't one design a setting working like \bf or \it ?
>             Sure.  This is how \bf is defined in plain.tex:
>             \newfam\bffam \def\bf{\fam\bffam\tenbf} % \bf is family 6
>             \textfont\bffam=\tenbf \scriptfont\bffam=\sevenbf
>             \scriptscriptfont\bffam=\fivebf
>             *Gesendet:* Sonntag, 27. August 2023 um 11:41 Uhr
>             *Von:* "Gérald Tenenbaum" <gerald.tenenbaum at univ-lorraine.fr>
>             *An:* "Philip Taylor (Hellenic Institute)"
>             <P.Taylor at Hellenic-Institute.Uk>
>             *Cc:* "Eplain" <tex-eplain at tug.org>
>             *Betreff:* Re: [tex-eplain] boldface greek symbols
>             Thanks.
>             Yes it suffices, but I also need these boldface letters in
>             subscripts.
>             I am puzzled by the necessity of using \hbox. Can't one
>             design a setting working like \bf or \it ?
>             Regards,
>
>             Gérald
>
>             Philip Taylor (Hellenic Institute) a écrit le 27/8/23 à
>             11:21 :
>
>                 You don't appear to be using \gpfam, Gérald — will not
>                 the following suffice ?
>
>
>                 \font \tengp = cmmib10
>                 \def \gp {\textfont 1 = \tengp}
>                 \def \gth {\hbox {$\gp \vartheta $}}
>                 $\gth \neq \vartheta $
>                 \end
>
>                 --
>                 /Philip Taylor/
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://tug.org/pipermail/tex-eplain/attachments/20230827/ab74eebc/attachment.htm>


More information about the tex-eplain mailing list.