# [texhax] Having trouble with roman numerals

Uwe Lueck uwe.lueck at web.de
Tue Jun 16 18:25:34 CEST 2015

```Mon Jun 15 03:29:07 CEST 2015, Frank E(a)rnest posted:
> P.S.: Funtoo [...] Sadly, all the latex packages are
> in three bundles as of this writing, making it
> difficult to figure out which package does what
> for you.
Same here on Lubuntu/Debian TeX Live up to a factor
of about 10, until suddenly maintainers thought that
with APT there were no need for tlmgr, I have prepared
your name?  I seems to vary.

More detailed about what at least one found rude
and/or ridiculus, on the fact that there is no
problem with Roman numerals and no information
basis of which useful advice could be given:

> Well, page numbering in pdf, ps, and dvi files the
> numbering starts at the title, so I assumed that
> that's what your supposed to do when you publish
> pdf/ps/dvi docs.  Where should I put it, ideally?

put *what*?

> I tried reading other guides latex source but could
> not find any hints.

\documentclass[...]{book}

and even the thread subject (as Roman page numbers
typically are used in books) indicate that you are
trying to typeset a *book*.  In the first instance,
I think, you need to know how books usually look
like.  Please take a few of them and look on which
pages page numbers appear.

When you consult a LaTeX guide, such as The LaTeX
Companion, you might not only read what is in the
middle of the pages, you might also look for page
numbers.  E.g., the first page number that is
printed in The LaTeX Companion, 2nd (English) edition,
is "viii".  In The TeXbook, it is "vi".  In a book
from Clarendon Press, Oxford, that I just have beside
me and which is *not* TeX-related, the first printed
page number is "vi", too.

RK > You can't say \copyright{Frank Ernest 2015++}
RK > because the control sequence \copyright isn't
RK > defined anywhere or, if it is defined, has
RK > another meaning (it usually prints the copyright
RK > symbol).

> Yes, that's what I thought, so, what markup keyword
> should I use?

I insist, even after another morning, that you cannot
expect a useful answer unless you tell what you want
to *achieve* by such a markup keyword.  Something like

will place a respective string at a *single* place
in the book.  However, when you change your original

\date{04/22/2015}
\maketitle

into

\date{04/22/2015}
\maketitle

that single place will be two pages *before* the
title page.  I insist even after a few mornings that
this would be horrible.  (It would also conflict
with your idea that page numbering starts with the
book's title.  Actually, when looking into real
books, you may observe that two pages before the
title page, which names authors/editors, there is
a page with the book's title only.)

When I typed my previous posting, I wondered what
you expect a "copyright markup keyword" below
\author and \date and above \maketitle to result in.
One interpretation is that you hope it results in
placing the copyright string on the title page by
\maketitle, as with \author and \date.  However, with
Standard LaTeX, there is *no* "keyword" that inserts
such a copyright statement on the title page
straightforwardly; while you could use \author or
even \date

\date{06/16/2015\\[1ex]

or, perhaps more straightforwardly, \thanks.

each page or on almost every second page, I told
you, should *that* turn out to be your idea.

I did think of a code line for the copyright
*above* \maketitle that could make sense:  With
hyperref.sty, you can insert *metadata*, such
as the author's name, by the keyword "pdfauthor",
see section 3.7 of the manual.  I can't find
"pdfcopyright", but "pdfinfo" might be used for
such a purpose, not sure about "pdfproducer".

However, such information inserted in the PDF will
not be printed, it may rather appear in the top
line of the PDF viewer window, at least it may be
shown among the *file properties* (right-click at
the PDF file icon).

I still don't know whether this is what you intend.

Looking at real-life books again, copyright marks
seem to be printed on the *back page of the title
page* usually.  So \textcopyright might help *below*
\maketitle.  This may be most recommendable.

There is a problem *not* related to TeX:
The copyright owner in the first instance is the
*author*.  The author more usually transfers the
copyright to the publisher.  I doubt that *you*
get the copyright when you just are the copy
typist of

\author{David Niklas}

Rather, your name will be mentioned "last, not least"
at the end of the author's preface, nowhere else in
the book (and without a copyright mark), sorry.

If you are not the author's copy typist, but work
Otherwise you should know that as the author's typist,
(usually) it is *not your job* to create the pages
around the title page which do not display (even)
Roman page numbers.  By

\documentclass[11pt,oneside,a4paper]{book}

you only get a rough idea of how the book could look
like, just while preparing the manuscript before it is
actually submitted to the publisher.  (The final book
probably won't be "oneside" and "a4paper".)  There
also are book classes especially for certain disciplines
of science, such as amsbook.cls, whose output resembles
the look provided by the publisher better.
Some publishers offer the classes by which they
typeset their books in the web or even on CTAN.
Anyway, publishers have their own ideas and means
for creating the title pages.

In the latter respect, you just shouldn't deal

(I have thought of "well-reputed" publishers here,
not of "cheap" ones or "self-publishing".)

\thanks,

Uwe.

P.S.:  I heard a local Gentoo user group fell apart,