# [tex-hyphen] a question about "office"

Hans Hagen pragma at wxs.nl
Sat Feb 6 11:48:27 CET 2016

On 2/5/2016 7:55 PM, Claudio Beccari wrote:
> As far as I know compound word made up with an hyphen in between don't
> get hyphenated even with with plain TeX, except at the hyphen. I don't
> see whi ConTeXt or LuaTeX should behave differently.

because it also relates to how a font constructs ligatures; ffi can
become [f][f][i] with different representations / kerning, [f][fi],
[ff][i], [ffi], and replacement can work forward (f followed by i) or
backward (i preceded by f) or with inhibition (f followed by i but not
by ij) and whatever else one can come up with ... so, in opentype a
ligature as concept is kind of meaningless (just a many to one
replacement) and a liga feature not even has to use such replacements

depending on how that is done, one can end up with hyphenation (esp
successive ones separated by one char) being collapsed; tex has a
concept of (one level) chained discretionaries but that's pretty messy
so context avoids it, if only because dropping an occasional hyphenation
point is hardly a drawback when it makes it easier (and more reliable)
to implement another dozen or so possible (complex)  transformations to
be applied to the resulting glyph sequence (one can also decide to turn
of ligatures, something most users won't notice anyway)

(luatex has a separate hyphenation, lig building, kerning stages with
the possibility to kick on whatever one likes which happens with e.g.
otf processing - unless one uses traditional tex base mode, which is
often ok for everyday english latin)

fwiw, in traditional tex mode context uses the patterns as they are when
hyphenating the list, in some extended mode it does a bit more (extended
pattern stuff)

>mtxrun --script patterns --hyphenate whatever

hyphenator      |
hyphenator      | . w h a t e v e r .   . w h a t e v e r .
hyphenator      |      0a0t5e0v0         0 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 0
hyphenator      |          0e0v1e0r0     0 0 0 0 5 0 1 0 0
hyphenator      | .0w0h0a0t5e0v1e0r0.   . w h a t-e v-e r .
hyphenator      |
mtx-patterns    | us 3 3 : whatever : what-ever

>mtxrun --script patterns --hyphenate whatever --language=nl

hyphenator      |
hyphenator      | . w h a t e v e r .   . w h a t e v e r .
hyphenator      | .0w4                   0 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
hyphenator      |  0w1h0                 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
hyphenator      |      0a1t0             0 4 0 1 0 0 0 0 0
hyphenator      |        1t0e0           0 4 0 1 0 0 0 0 0
hyphenator      |        0t4e0v0         0 4 0 1 4 0 0 0 0
hyphenator      |        0t0e0v0e4r0     0 4 0 1 4 0 0 4 0
hyphenator      |          4e0v0e0r0     0 4 0 1 4 0 0 4 0
hyphenator      |            1v2         0 4 0 1 4 1 2 4 0
hyphenator      |            0v4e0       0 4 0 1 4 1 4 4 0
hyphenator      |            0v0e2r0     0 4 0 1 4 1 4 4 0
hyphenator      |                4r0.    0 4 0 1 4 1 4 4 0
hyphenator      | .0w4h0a1t4e1v4e4r0.   . w h a-t e-v e r .
hyphenator      |
mtx-patterns    | nl 3 3 : whatever : wha-te-ver

anyway, the tex-hyphen project is about patterns so what gets done with
them (by context or whatever) is not that relevant

> Run this minimal working example: we have single words, the same words
> combined with a hyphen sign and the same words glued together.
>
> You easily notice the differnece; of course you can run the MWE with
> pdflatex, xelatex and lualtex; I don't know how to run a modified
> version with ConTeXt; I know that it does not work with plain tex, but
> it would not be a problem to use the \showhhyphens macro; the little
> difference is that the environment checkhyphens prints the hyphenated
> words in theoutput file; \shouwhyphens prints the hyphenated word in th
> log file.
>
> Claudio
>
>
> \documentclass{article}
> \usepackage{testhyphens}
> \usepackage[english]{babel}
> \begin{document}
> The current language is \languagename.
>
> \begin{checkhyphens}
> office
> Office
> OpenOffice
> Open-Office
> Libre-Office
> LibreOffice
> Open
> Libre
> \end{checkhyphens}
>
> \end{document}
>
>
> On 05/02/2016 15:26, Philip Taylor wrote:
>>
>> Barbara Beeton wrote:
>>
>>> i agree with "Open-Office", but nothing
>>> will persuade me to hyphenate "Libre"
>> Collins-Robert indicates that the final schwa is optional, and without
>> it I cannot see it being bisyllabic, so I go along with Barbara here (as
>> usual ...).
>>
>> ** Phil.
>

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