[OS X TeX] pdf viewers: pop-ups at hyperref links

Roussanka Loukanova rl.stpuu at gmail.com
Wed Jul 13 22:40:27 CEST 2022 

Hi Richard (Sequin),

I think it would be good if you write to the Skim mailing list and
describe the problem with the side window (cmd+click), on your Mac:

Skim-app-users mailing list
Skim-app-users at lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/skim-app-users

Best Regards,
Roussanka


On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 10:19 PM Roussanka Loukanova <rl.stpuu at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Richard,
>
> Sorry for answering with  this delay.
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 1:51 AM Richard Seguin <riseguin at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Roussanka,
> >
> > I’ve just done a little more investigation. If I’m in a 200 page document, I always have to wait until the pop-up appears before I command-click; otherwise I get the tiny mutant window. If I’m in a 50 page document, I can often command-click just before the time when the pop-up would appear and get the second window in the form I want. If I command-click immediately after hovering over the link with the cursor, I get the tiny mutant window.
>
> I've tried it with a relatively large document of 152 pages. The
> cmd+click quickly opens the side windows, without any need to wait for
> the small pop-up. The number of the pages doesn't matter, e.g.,
> cmd+click by hovering over the hyperlink on p.1 opens the pdf, in a
> small side window, with about 7 lines, on the right spot on p.152.
>
> > I wonder if this is a timing issue — for example, maybe something must happen in the code between the time when you hover over the link and you command-click in order for it to work correctly.
> > I have an older Mac Mini with a 3 GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i7 and a not very fast GPU; maybe the machine is just too slow. It takes a second or two just for the pop-up to appear in both Skim and TeXShop.
> >
>
> If there is such a time gap, it seems to me that it is in the PDFKit
> (or whatever the software was called), not in the hyperlinks, nor in
> Skim (TexShop). It may be that on your Mac it takes that time gap to
> open the pdf of 200 (50) pages. The jump to the target spot shouldn't
> be taking much if any time.
>
> My MacBook Air is also very slow, but probably your processr is a
> little bit slower for such a specific task.
>
> The software (PDFKit?) shouldn't  be counting per se the number of
> pages and going through the pages. I guess, the target locations of
> the hyperlinks are computed and assigned to variables during latex-ing
> compilation, and available directly for jumps to those locations. We
> run latex a couple of times - for assignments of the target locations,
> to be available directly.
>
> My MacBook Air is also very slow, but probably yours is a little bit
> slower for such specific task.
>
> Dick of TeXShop and Christian of Skim probably know because they use
> that software (PDFKit?) for the feature.
>
> But I've found a limited capability of the 2nd side window, despite
> that it has the entire pdf. Even if resized to a full page, I see
> three limitations (as of now), or may be I do not know how to handle
> them:
>
> - I can't bring in  the Toolbar in the secondary window
>
> - none of the items under Tool are active, i.e., I can't make any notes
>
> - the hyperlinks do not work: If I hover the pointer of the cursor
> over a link, the pointer turns into the small hand, and nothing
> happens with clicks, i.e., there is no jump to the corresponding
> hyperlinked locations
>
> That is, it seems that the software (PdfKit?) doesn't have access to
> the information about references, nor to the note tools.
>
> Dick and Christian know more, for certain, e.g., after Dick works out
> the feature, he may tell us why you get the time gap. Perhaps that is
> just for opening the large pdf, on the respective page and line of the
> hyperink.
>
> Best Regards,
> Roussanka
>
> > Richard
> >
> > > On Jul 10, 2022, at 2:36 PM, Roussanka Loukanova <rl.stpuu at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Richard,
> > > ...
> > >
> > >> Skim does have an additional tool though. (I use single page view, and I’m not sure how this works with a double page view). If you hover the cursor over the link long enough for the pop-up to appear and then do a command-click on the link, Skim displays off to the side a window of a full page width view of the lemma or whatever, but only maybe ten lines long, and it’s scrollable vertically. Then I can examine the text on both pages side by side and determine whether or not, for example, the lemma really does imply what I said it does.
> > >
> > > This is great! I had seen this side window many times before, by
> > > accidentally hitting  some keys in some rush typing. Now, I know that
> > > this is by cmd+click and what it is!
> > >
> > > In this side window:
> > >
> > > - I can scroll through the entire pdf in it
> > > - I can resize it
> > > - From the top menu bar of Skim, I can:
> > > PDF > Zoom In / Zoom Out, alternatively, I can use:
> > > cmd + / cmd -
> > > - It is a 2nd window display of the same pdf. (Up to now, I have tried
> > > many times, without success, how to bring in a 2nd window display of
> > > the same pdf, in Skim, and in Preview)
> > > - I do not know how to Toggle the ToolBar on its upper part. But, this
> > > may be good, to distinguish this "side window" from the primary one.
> > >
> > >> The one thing that annoys me about this though is that I first have to wait for the pop-up to appear. If I command-click before the popup appears, a tiny useless window pops up. I believe that at one time I used to be able to do a command-click before the pop-up appeared and it worked properly, but at some point it stopped working properly.
> > >
> > > With my Skim (Version 1.6.11 (141)), the side window appears without
> > > waiting for the small pop-up window, just by:
> > >
> > > cmd+click
> > > - I get a side window, full width, 7-8 lines
> > > - I get a 3rd, 4th, 5th (I havenät tried for more cmd+click :-)
> > >
> > > This is an excellent feature - thanks Christian, hoping you read this,
> > > and will try to do something with the pop-up small window, to get the
> > > entire math display displayed in it.
> > >
> > > Richard, thanks for telling us about it.
> > >
> > > Dick, now TexShop should get this feature as well.
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Richard Séguin
> > >>
> > >>> On Jul 10, 2022, at 6:25 AM, Roussanka Loukanova <rl.stpuu at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi Murray, Hi everybody,
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Sat, Jul 9, 2022 at 7:07 PM Murray Eisenberg
> > >>> <murrayeisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On 9 Jul2022, at 12:08 PM, Herbert Schulz via MacOSX-TeX <macosx-tex at email.esm.psu.edu> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Jul 9, 2022, at 10:46 AM, Murray Eisenberg <murrayeisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The previewer in TeXShop has the delightful feature that if you hover the mouse cursor over a hyperlink, a little window pops-up showing the target of that hyperlink.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> This allows you to see the target without having to actually jump to it (with a click), which loses the place you were originally viewing.
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> Howdy,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Not true. After clicking and going to the hyperlinked information press the back triangle on the preview window's toolbar. The left/right triangles are back/forward in document location as opposed to page back/forward (up/down).
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Skim has the same feature, including, after having jumped to the
> > >>> hyperlinked page, to return back to the spot of the hyperlink. This is
> > >>> very useful to quickly check math displays (equations, etc.)
> > >>>
> > >>> There is a difference between TexShop pdf preview and Skim:
> > >>>
> > >>> - In Skim, on my 13" screen:
> > >>> The pop-up target, a small window, displays only portions of the math
> > >>> displays. Typically, the left-hand portion of a math display is cut
> > >>> off. This makes it of little use, in many cases, actually almost
> > >>> always. Thus, I have to jump to the target page to see the full math
> > >>> display.
> > >>> The small pop-up window shows the right-hand side of the math display,
> > >>> in full, including its tag / number.
> > >>> It is very useful that the font size of the math, in the pop-up
> > >>> window, is sufficiently large to see clearly the math symbols of the
> > >>> visible portion.
> > >>>
> > >>> - In TexShop pdf display:
> > >>> The pop-up small window shows almost the entire math display. I guess,
> > >>> this is achieved by the tiny font-size of the math display in the
> > >>> small pop-up window,  to fit in. But, it's also shifted, so that the
> > >>> right-hand side of the equation tag / number is cut off and not shown,
> > >>> while the left-hand side margin is shown, which is empty space.
> > >>>
> > >>> The major difference:
> > >>>
> > >>> In Skim:
> > >>> the font-size is usefully large, but the math display is cut-off, and
> > >>> I can see only a portion of it.
> > >>>
> > >>> In TexShop:
> > >>> the tiny font-size allows me to see almost the entire math display
> > >>> (except the right-hand tag / number), but it is too small to see
> > >>> details of the math symbols. It shows the empty left margin, which is
> > >>> a waste of space.
> > >>>
> > >>> I guess these differences are related to the scale of the pdf display,
> > >>> and the screen size.
> > >>>
> > >>> On a very old MacBook Air 13", that is how I see the pop-up small windows.
> > >>>
> > >>> At one point, I wrote to Christian of Skim about this problem. But I
> > >>> have not been able to figure out whether that can be adjusted, e.g.,
> > >>> in the preferences, etc. settings, or if it's part of settings in the
> > >>> software of the pdf display.
> > >>>
> > >>> Best Regards,
> > >>> Roussanka
> > >>>
> > >>>> If you refer to some capability of the TeXShop previewer to return to the source of a hyperlink after going to the target, that is not what I’m asking about.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I’m asking about the pop-up feature, which allows you to see the content of the page having the source of the link and, at the same time (albeit with a bit of obscuring that page) a pop-up showing the target of the link.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> For example, I have a hyperlinked reference on page 200 to Theorem 2.34; clicking that link pops-up a little window showing Theorem 2.34 (not the whole page that had Theorem 2.34 on it).
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I’m asking about PDF viewers other than the one included in TeXShop — viewers that an end-user of a pdf produced from TeXShop would be employing.
> > >>>> ---
> > >>>> Murray Eisenberg murrayeisenberg at gmail.com
> > >>>> Mobile (413)-427-5334
> > >>>> 503 King Farm Blvd #101
> > >>>> Rockville, MD 20850-6667
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
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