[OS X TeX] Various TeX programs on Mac

[m]

Am 07.05.2004 um 17:35 schrieb Bruno Voisin:

>>> What about all these ancillary files LaTeX likes so much? Like 
>>> BibTeX files. (Not the ones LaTeX produces, like .aux or .bbl files, 
>>> but the ones it uses, like .bib files.)
>>
>> Dunno, what about them? :)
>> Are these extra-files one needs to edit? Haven't used BibTeX at all.
>
> I don't use BibTeX either, but yes, according to the LaTeX manual, 
> .bib files are separate files (bibliographic databases) you have to 
> write and provide to LaTeX, or rather BibTeX. They are written in a 
> special syntax specific to BibTeX.
>
> You run LaTeX once on your .tex or .ltx file to produce a .aux file, 
> then BibTeX on the .aux file. Based on the data in this file, BibTeX 
> takes out the relevant bibliographic data out of the .bib file and 
> generates a .bbl file which contains but the thebibliography 
> environment to be included in the .tex or .ltx file. Running LaTeX a 
> second time on this .tex or .ltx file produces the desired output.

Hm, I don't know what to say, because I don't understand how this 
works, e.g., *how* do you "run BibTeX on the .aux file"? :)

How do TeXShop an iTeXMac handle this right now?

>> So I could also think of a preview window which has a code-palette 
>> attached. This would lead to other difficulties, though, like 
>> obscuring content, but one would have to see.
>
> Manipulating directly the TeX code from the Preview window would more 
> or less amount, again, to reinvent LyX or TeXmacs, I think.

No, no -- not "manipulating directly".

Click on the PDF, it jumps to the lines in the source code.
Edit source code, hit "typeset", the pdf gets updated.

Click on the source code, the pdf jumps to the page displaying the 
typset output.

iTeXMac -- or so I was told -- is capable of doing this right now. But 
the big difference with the one-window approach would be that you'd be 
changing the focus from "source" to "output".

Look: Right now (again, TeXShop as reference), we're opening a .tex 
file. This opens *three* windows. Source, PDF, Console. Focus is on the 
source.
I believe that for beginners, it would be far better to either give 
them focus on the *output* (because that's what they want to create), 
or rather give them a mixed focus on both source *and* output (because 
it's what they want to create AND how they create it).

By using one window, with an initially empty output view, users can 
*see* that something will be created. Look at iMovie and the black 
"movie screen". Even though you're not editing the movie itself (as in 
"click on the movie, draw on it"), your focus IS the movie. Everything 
else in that window -- timeline, clips, sound, effects, etc. -- is what 
you're working on, just like the TeX-source.

>> BTW: If you think about data-manipulation apps, then there are quite 
>> a lot of examples which hold both views (raw and processed) in one 
>> window. Or just think about any internet-forum, which lets you hit 
>> the "preview" button.
>
> Yes, this is like the way WYSIWYG HTML-editing applications work 
> (Mozilla Composer, Nvu, or even the HTML Editor that was included in 
> OS X Public Beta --- why did they remove it? It was buggy, but most 
> applications in Public Beta were anyway).
>
> A problem with this approach is that you cannot view both the input 
> and the output at the same time, and I find such simultaneous view 
> quite useful: you change some code in the input, hit Typeset, and see 
> whether the output view is changed.
>
> Examples of such use:

"My" approach would allow for *exactly* that. :)

> Back to the analogy with HTML editing, I just checked in BBEdit, which 
> is more oriented towards producing correct HTML code, not towards 
> WYSIWYG. It works pretty much like the current TeX front-ends: you 
> write the HTML code, possibly using the very convenient Markup menu 
> (essentially a macros menu), then select "Preview in BBEdit", and a 
> new window pops up containing the preview.

I know, and it's great for folks knowing HTML, but it's a pain for 
beginners.
And that's what this thread is about, I thought -- how to make it 
easier for beginners.

Also, HTML still is very different from TeX, as you can load the 
html-file into a browser and have the result displayed. Try opening a 
TeX-file with Preview. :)

> <ftp://ftp.legi.hmg.inpg.fr/pub/public/voisin/entete.pdf>

needs a password. ;)

mahakk

-----------------------------------------------------
Please see <http://www.esm.psu.edu/mac-tex/> for list
guidelines, information, and LaTeX/TeX resources.