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Hi Zdenek,<br class="">
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<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 18 Mar 2019, at 7:58 am, Zdenek Wagner <<a href="mailto:zdenek.wagner@gmail.com" class="">zdenek.wagner@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div class="">ne 17. 3. 2019 v 19:57 odesílatel Ross Moore <<a href="mailto:ross.moore@mq.edu.au" class="">ross.moore@mq.edu.au</a>> napsal:<br class="">
><br class="">
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<div class="">
<div class="">> Yes, but it is better for the CMaps to at least be appropriate, rather than inaccurate or missing altogether, as can be the case. Different software tools get information from different places, so ideally one needs to provide the best values
for all those possible places.<br class="">
><br class="">
No, CMaps help for simple scripts only. </div>
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<div>Fine. But a CMap must be present for validation.</div>
<div>As I said earlier (repeated below), they will not always be sufficient for proper Accessibility.</div>
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">Let's imagine a person name<br class="">
written বৌমিক in the Bengali script and transliterated as Bowmik. OW<br class="">
is a two part matra (dependent vowel) which looks as e-matra preceding<br class="">
the consonant and o-matra following the consonant. I-matra always<br class="">
precedes the consonant thus using a CMap only the word would become<br class="">
eboimak with two spelling errors. An editor will complain on an<br class="">
e-matra at the beginning of a word and i-matra following o-matra, the<br class="">
editor will indicate missing consonants. Similarly Hindi word स्थापित<br class="">
(sthaapit) would be extraxted as sthaaipat which is wrong because<br class="">
i-matra must not follow aa-matra. If I had time, I could give you<br class="">
several thousands examples where CMaps fail. In past I did many tests<br class="">
with Devanagari and without ActualText the problem cannot be solved.<br class="">
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</div>
<div>I’m really happy that you have done such tests, and determined this.</div>
<div>It’s certainly not an area that I could have researched.</div>
<div>It demonstrates that supporting Accessibility properly can be a lot more complicated</div>
<div>than any single simple-minded approach would support.</div>
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">This is the very reason why \XeTeXgenerateactualtext was implemented.<br class="">
It is not just a problem of save as text/rtf/doc, in addition search<br class="">
does not work.<br class="">
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</div>
<div>Great addition.</div>
However, it’s useful insofar as those AT getting information from the /ActualText.</div>
<div>Some screen-readers go for other places.</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>Indeed the PDF/A and PDF/UA specifications expect the Accessible text to come </div>
<div>from the /Alt(…) tagging of the structure element parent of the tagged text.</div>
<div>(Obviously not all AT follow these specifications.)</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>This is why I suggest to populate more than one place with information that is helpful...<br class="">
<div><br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">> And Zdenek's comment emphasises how what might work well in one language setting can be quite insufficient for others. We need to be able to accommodate all things that are helpful.<br class="">
> That is surely what the U (for Universal) means in PDF/UA.<br class="">
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</div>
<div>… requiring an appreciation for the intricacies of the language and intended audiences.</div>
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">><br class="">
> Cheers,<br class="">
><br class="">
> Ross<br class="">
><br class="">
<br class="">
Zdeněk Wagner<br class="">
<a href="https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/VW2aCANpnDC1mY4QF9GZJv?domain=ttsm.icpf.cas.cz" class="">http://ttsm.icpf.cas.cz/team/wagner.shtml</a><br class="">
<a href="https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/OefSCBNqgBClZojGHjGNEq?domain=icebearsoft.euweb.cz" class="">http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz</a><br class="">
</div>
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<br class="">
</div>
<div>I don’t see us as arguing against each other; rather we are sharing</div>
<div>experiences which indicate the depth of what is needed.</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
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</div>
<div>Cheers again,</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>Ross</div>
<br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
Dr Ross Moore<br class="">
Department of Mathematics and Statistics
<div class="">12 Wally’s Walk, Level 7, Room 734<br class="">
Macquarie University, NSW 2109, Australia<br class="">
T: +61 2 9850 8955 | F: +61 2 9850 8114<br class="">
M:+61 407 288 255 | E: <a href="mailto:ross.moore@mq.edu.au" class="">ross.moore@mq.edu.au</a><br class="">
<a href="http://www.maths.mq.edu.au" class="">http://www.maths.mq.edu.au</a><span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: normal;"><a href="http://mq.edu.au/" target="_blank" style="font-size: 12px; line-height: normal;" class=""><span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 105, 217); color: rgb(0, 105, 217); font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; orphans: 2; widows: 2;">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 105, 217); color: rgb(0, 105, 217); font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><span><span><span><span><img apple-inline="yes" id="B4E38358-27C1-43D0-B6B9-A2813A9821CE" src="cid:image001.png@01D030BE.D37A46F0" class=""></span><br style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">CRICOS
Provider Number 00002J. Think before you</span><span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">print. </span><br style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Please
consider the environment before printing this</span><span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">email.</span><br style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none;" class="">
<br style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">This
message is intended for the addressee named</span><span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">and
may </span><br style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">contain
confidential information. If you are not the</span><span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">intended </span><br style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">recipient,
please delete it and notify the sender. Views</span><span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">expressed </span><br style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">in
this message are those of the individual sender, and</span><span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">are
not </span><br style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">necessarily
the views of Macquarie University.</span> </span></span></span></span></span></a></span></div>
<a href="http://mq.edu.au/" target="_blank" style="font-size: 12px; line-height: normal;" class=""></a></div>
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