[XeTeX] [Off-topic] Persian versus Farsi

[Georg Duffner]

On 2011-06-11 11:29, John Was wrote:
> I would say the situation is always fluid in the nomenclature employed for foreign names, languages, and places - in English, at any rate.  I'm sure the inhabitants of Livorno would be a little upset if English-speakers still referred to it as Leghorn (likewise Braunschweig/Brunswick, and innumerable others).  As a matter of politeness, if those speaking the language say that they would be happier to hear English-speakers use the word 'Persian', I'm sure most English-speakers would go along with that.  They probably only started to say 'Farsi' because they thought that's what the speakers of the language would rather hear them use.

As Alan Munn the article referenced by Vafa state, this is a rather 
political question. Iranians asking to have their language called farsi 
do so for political reasons. So the usage of the term farsi in English, 
French or German (and many others) transports a political 
message—perhaps not transparent for Americans and Europeans, but surely 
so for Iranians.

> Interestingly, it doesn't seem to work quite like this in languages other than English.  I don't think the French could be easily persuaded to refer to the British capital as London rather than Londres, nor do the British (as far as I know) have any desire to impose 'London' on those foreign languages that use their own form.  But English seems in general willing to adapt to the form that speakers of foreign languages would prefer English-speakers to use.

Please don’t say that, it’s chauvinistic and not true at all. Would you 
switch to [pa'ri] instead of ['pæris] for the french capital or say 
[vi:n] instead of [viena]?

> It certainly isn't up to the speakers of one language to tell the speakers of another language which form they _must_ use - but it ought to be enough to express a preference, and then I think the deprecated form will naturally fade out of use, in the interests of harmonious human relations, which seem to be in pretty short supply (even at times on this list).
> John

Don’t forget: much of this is a matter of politics!

Georg

>
>    ----- Original Message -----
>    From: Vafa Khalighi
>    To: Unicode-based TeX for Mac OS X and other platforms
>    Sent: 11 June 2011 10:09
>    Subject: Re: [XeTeX] [Off-topic] Persian versus Farsi
>
>
>    OK, understood, but I also feel that it rather begs the question (the English
>
>      name, that is, not your answer).  Because if the received wisdom were that the
>      preferred English name for the language  was Farsi and not Persian, then
>      the English name of the Academy would surely be the the “Academy of Farsi
>      Language and Literature”, would it not ?  So it is a sort of self-fulfilling prophesy :
>
>    What is the historical name of the language of Persian nation in the west? is it Farsi or Persian? Was it Persian empire or Farsian Empire?
>
>
>
>      the Academy of Persian Language and Literature "clearly advocates the use of
>
>      the word 'Persian' not 'Farsi'", because if it did not, it would call itself (in English)
>      the "Academy of Farsi Language and Literature" !
>
>      But if the Persian name for the Persian language is, in transliteration, Fārsī,
>      is it really logical for the Persian nation (or should I here be writing "Iranian" ?
>      This is quite a linguistic minefield) to seek to tell the West that while it
>      is perfectly normal for a Persian (Iranian) to call his language Fārsī, we in the
>      west must call it Persian ?!
>
>
>
>    Why not?
>
>
>
>
>
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EB Garamond: http://www.georgduffner.at/ebgaramond