[XeTeX] custom footnote rules w/ ednotes, polyglossia & bidi

Alan Munn amunn at gmx.com
Mon Jul 26 06:03:42 CEST 2010

On Jul 25, 2010, at 5:23 PM, talazem at fastmail.fm wrote:

> Hi Alan et al,
> Thank you for your kind help. You understood perfectly what was  
> required. I used what you mentioned of defining a newcommand for the  
> \left at footnoterule rule, did the same for a right at footnoterule, and  
> have what I needed now. The document is now compiling and being  
> produced as desired. Thank you again.
> However, it is producing some non-critical errors, and as such, I  
> have a further wrinkle that I'd like to iron out.
> Because the majority of my document (a doctoral thesis) is left-to- 
> right, and only a certain section is right-to-left (the short  
> critical edition of a text), I do not want the document's  
> footnoterule to universally be changed to RtL. As such:
> (a) I have not used the proposed " \PrecedeLevelWith{A}{\setRL} "  
> command;
> (b) in it's stead, I have redefined my variant footnotes of \Anote  
> as follows:
> 	\SetFootnoteHook{\setRL}
> 	\SelectFootnoteRule[1]{rt}
> 	\DeclareNewFootnote[para]{A}[alph]
> Like I said, this compiles, and the output is visually what I  
> desire, but I get the following error:
> 	Later Error: Command \FootnotetextA already defined.
> 		Or name \end... illegal, see p.192 of the manual.
> 		...
> 	1.38 \DeclareNewFootnote[para]{A}[alph]
> Naturally, I'd rather get no errors; I want to be sure that I am not  
> messing up something else inadvertently.
> Basically, it appears that XeLaTeX/ednotes is not liking my  
> "declaring" level A of the variant footnote (\Anote), since it is  
> inherently already declared (defined) by ednotes itself when you  
> load it. What should I do to avert this?

Yes, this is the problem I alluded to in my comments as well.

> You also mentioned that the marker could easily be changed not with  
> ednotes, but with manyfoot. Do you mean by this something other than  
> what you've already kindly suggested?

Given the functionality that ednotes provides on top of manyfoot, and  
my ignorance of how critical edition commenting works, I don't think  
the solution I had in mind will work.  But reading the ednotes  
documentation (such as it is) more carefully suggests a solution to  
your problem, (I think).

The trick is to define the RTL rule before loading ednotes, which will  
then use the redefined rule.

In subsequent chapters I assume you won't be using the \Anote  
commands?  If that assumption is right, then you just need to change  
the footnote rule back to a left rule for the subsequent chapters.

I've attached another sample document.  Hopefully this does everything  
you need.


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> Many thanks once again to all who have helped.
> Kind regards,
> Talal
> p.s.  While Vafa's comments didn't help me solve the problem, it is  
> clear from experimenting with what he said that there is a conflict  
> between bidi and ednotes, either in the latter's calling up the  
> lineno package (since bidi's "fulltextwidth" command didn't work  
> when I invoked lineno in a minimal example file), or with the  
> manyfoot package. These packages probably aren't sufficiently aware  
> of the complexities of bidi, and thus the problems. It is, as Vafa  
> states, probably not bidi's fault, but the conflict exists all the  
> same. Interestingly, bidi's "autofootnoterule" actually does seem to  
> work fine, once you learn (as I did eventually did) that you have to  
> start a \newpage to ensure that the automatic direction is correct  
> on a page in which the text's direction subsequently changes.  
> Nonetheless, it doesn't give the type of granular control I was  
> requesting for each level of ednote's scholarly footnotes, for which  
> I am much grateful to Alan's help above.
> On 25 Jul 2010, at 18:43, Alan Munn wrote:
>> Hi Wafa and Talal,
>> Wafa, I'm afraid you've misunderstood Talal's requirements.  His  
>> problem is not simply to get a RTL footnote marker; he needs one in  
>> the context of multiple footnote apparatus as supplied by the  
>> ednotes/manyfoot package.  This is a requirement for the kind of  
>> critical edition that he is writing.
>> Talal, I've attached a sample file that I think does most of what  
>> you want. Please note that I don't work with critical editions and  
>> the ednotes package is about the worst documented package I've ever  
>> seen, so I don't really understand much of what the expected output  
>> is supposed to be.
>> Some comments about what I did:
>> It seems that you want the first set of footnotes to be Arabic with  
>> a RTL rule; to do this, I had to reset the default footnote marker  
>> to a right footnote marker, since there doesn't seem to be a way to  
>> change the marker using ednotes (even though it could easily be  
>> changed using manyfoot).  I then created a lftrule for use with the  
>> second series of footnotes, and redefined the extrarule to be empty  
>> for the third set.
>> With respect to using the RTL marker for just one chapter, I  
>> couldn't figure out a way to redefine the A series footnotes within  
>> the document.  Perhaps the easiest way around this is to create a  
>> fourth footnote series and use that in subsequent chapters as your  
>> first set.  Again, ednotes isn't very well documented, so I don't  
>> know how this would work in practice.
>> Hopefully though, the attached code will give you something to work  
>> on.
>> Alan
>> <fnotes2.tex>
>> On Jul 24, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Vafa Khalighi wrote:
>>> On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 3:18 AM, talazem at fastmail.fm <talazem at fastmail.fm 
>>> > wrote:
>>> I'm sorry, I mistyped. Of course \setRTLmarginpar has nothing to  
>>> do with it. I meant \setRTL, because I am using ednotes (which  
>>> uses manyfoot). I have three levels of footnotes. I want to define  
>>> the footnote rule of one level (level B, for example) as right-to- 
>>> left, but the others leave the LtR. I have tried to simply use  
>>> \rightfootnoterule for the definition of my "level B" of  
>>> footnotes, but this did not work.
>>> see attached file. The commands clearly works.
>>> -- 
>>> Best wishes,
>>> Vafa Khalighi
>>> <test.tex><test.pdf>
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>> -- 
>> Alan Munn
>> amunn at gmx.com
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Alan Munn
amunn at gmx.com

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