[XeTeX] Some thoughts regarding fonts
Simon Spiegel
simon at simifilm.ch
Mon Oct 4 11:36:10 CEST 2004
Hi,
the discussion regarding fonts in LateX/XeTeX is highly interesting, and I want
to share my 0.02$. Just as a disclaimer: I'm neither a Tex-Pro nor a programmer,
but just an interested and fairly knowledgable LaTeX user who came to LaTeX
because no OSX of Framemaker exists.
When I started with LaTeX, I didn't understand anything about its handling of
fonts. I used a package a friend of mine put together and I still use it today.
I understand a bit more about fonts in LaTeX now, but I still doubt that I would
be able to install a complete new font for LaTeX. Entering XeTeX: From my point
of view, XeLaTeX is much an improvement in the handling of fonts, only few files
to edit, not 20 different formats to generate. Still, I think the siutation is
not perfect yet. One problem has directly to do with AAT/OpenType: In many cases
simply don't know what options a specific font offers. For example: After
fiddling around with Stempel Garamond LT Std for quite some time, I finally
understood that it just doesn't offer any swashes or alternative liguatures, in
my naivete I thought it just had to, being an OpenType font. To my knowlegde,
there is no tool, which will just display everything a font has to offer.
Another problem is that the syntax is different in XeLaTeX for OpenType and AAT
for accessing the font options, this was a source of confusion to me.
The last problem which I still don't know how to handle is the fact that
AAT/OpenType offers many options, LaTeX isn't prepared for. Take the different
italics in AdobeGaramond for example: one with swashes one without. I don't want
the swashed italics as standard italics font, it's too baroque, but I maybe want
to use it at certain places in a document. How do people deal with this
situation? And how about a font which offers all kind of weights, how can I
easily access all of them in one document (Maybe this is a trivial problem, I
just don't know it).
What would be the solution in a perfect world? Design a tool which shows all
options of a font, including ligatures, swashes, etc. Allow the user to select,
what options he wants for which style and generate the needed files for XeLaTex
based on the selection. This could even be included in frontends like TeXShop. I
do realize that this goes against TeX's philosophy to a certain extent, but it
would make the lifer for may users much more easier, and would also make XeTeX
more attractive.
simon
--
Simon Spiegel
Mutschellenstr. 97
8038 Zürich
Telephon: ++41 1 481 48 52
Mobophon: ++41 76 459 60 39
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Today's Topics:
1. New LaTeX encoding for XeTeX (Will Robertson)
2. XeTeX fails on dragged PDF images (Ross Moore)
3. Re: XeTeX fails on dragged PDF images (Will Robertson)
4. Re: XeTeX fails on dragged PDF images (Will Robertson)
5. Re: XeTeX fails on dragged PDF images (Ross Moore)
6. Re: I have broken XeTeX (Musa Furber)
7. Re: Upper Case numbers in Hoefler Text?? (Bruno Voisin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:01:05 +0930
From: Will Robertson <will at guerilla.net.au>
Subject: [XeTeX] New LaTeX encoding for XeTeX
To: XeTeX List <xetex at tug.org>
Message-ID: <0F8FEC08-15A5-11D9-BE49-000A95E49032 at guerilla.net.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi all
Following up from thoughts I had last night about font selection, I
have put together some files to demonstrate how new font selection can
be made as backwards compatible as possible (as I see it), while still
remaining in the spirit of the LaTeX font selection scheme.
Put the attached bundle of files in a place XeTeX will find it, and try
the following minimal document to get a feel for what it does.
I'd like some comments; is what I've done overkill? I mean, so far
we've just been using the U encoding, but considering we are basing it
around something (XeTeX's hooks into Mac OS X), it seems sensible to
define it all properly.
Anyway, check it out - what do you think?
Regards,
Will
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage[OSX]{fontenc}
\usepackage{palatino}
\begin{document}
This is roman\par
\sffamily this is sans serif\par
\ttfamily this is fixed width
\end{document}
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:49:09 +1000
From: Ross Moore <ross at maths.mq.edu.au>
Subject: [XeTeX] XeTeX fails on dragged PDF images
To: Unicode-based TeX for Mac OS X <xetex at tug.org>
Message-ID: <9570C79A-15A7-11D9-92F7-00039391146A at maths.mq.edu.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Hi Jonathan,
Try the following test, using TeXShop and XeTeX.
1. create a new document for XeLaTeX (or open any other to which
we will add some extra LaTeX coding);
ensure you have the preamble line: \usepackage{graphicx}
2. open any existing TeXShop document and go to its PDF display window;
3. with the Cmd+Option keys down (Cmd = Apple), create a selection
rectangle;
4. with the Cmd+Option+Shift keys down, drag the selection to the open
document source from step 1. Some coding gets added, such as:
\includegraphics[]{../../../Library/TeXShop/DraggedImages/
texshop_image.pdf}
5. now "Typeset" with XeLaTeX.
Including the image fails as follows:
! LaTeX Error: Cannot determine size of graphic in
../../../Library/TeXShop/DraggedImages/texshop_image.pdf (no
BoundingBox).
See the LaTeX manual or LaTeX Companion for explanation.
Type H <return> for immediate help.
...
l.54 ...y/TeXShop/DraggedImages/texshop_image.pdf}
?
<../../../Library/TeXShop/DraggedImages/texshop_image.pdf> [1]
The same problem is manifest in a slightly different way using XeTeX
instead of XeLaTeX
-- change the \includegraphics[]{....} command to \XeTeXpdffile{....}.
Now the message is:
! Unable to load picture or PDF file
'{../../../Library/TeXShop/DraggedImages/texshop_image.pdf}'.
<to be read again>
\par
l.52
The problem must be based in XeTeX itself, or XeTeX not liking
something about the PDF used in the texshop_image.pdf ,
since...
a. pdfLaTeX and pdfTeX can include such images;
b. the directory location is not the issue;
c. nor is the _ in the name.
(These are things that I've already checked.)
Would others please verify these results.
Jonathan, do you have any ideas why this doesn't work ?
Cheers,
Ross
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ross Moore ross at maths.mq.edu.au
Mathematics Department office: E7A-419
Macquarie University tel: +61 +2 9850 8955
Sydney, Australia fax: +61 +2 9850 8114
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:31:03 +0930
From: Will Robertson <will at guerilla.net.au>
Subject: Re: [XeTeX] XeTeX fails on dragged PDF images
To: Unicode-based TeX for Mac OS X <xetex at tug.org>
Message-ID: <3ED8AE88-15A9-11D9-BE49-000A95E49032 at guerilla.net.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Hi Ross
I checked your problem just then and experienced the exact same thing
as you, until I changed
\usepackage{graphicx}
to
\usepackage[xetex]{graphics}
Is the implicit behaviour expected?
Will
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:36:23 +0930
From: Will Robertson <will at guerilla.net.au>
Subject: Re: [XeTeX] XeTeX fails on dragged PDF images
To: Unicode-based TeX for Mac OS X <xetex at tug.org>
Message-ID: <FD935DCF-15A9-11D9-BE49-000A95E49032 at guerilla.net.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
On 4 Oct 2004, at 11:31 AM, Will Robertson wrote:
> I checked your problem just then and experienced the exact same thing
> as you, until I changed
> \usepackage{graphicx}
> to
> \usepackage[xetex]{graphics}
I actually meant
\usepackage[xetex]{graphicx}
that second time.
Oops,
W
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:24:14 +1000
From: Ross Moore <ross at maths.mq.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [XeTeX] XeTeX fails on dragged PDF images
To: Unicode-based TeX for Mac OS X <xetex at tug.org>
Message-ID: <7BF6B67E-15AC-11D9-92F7-00039391146A at maths.mq.edu.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Hi Will,
On 04/10/2004, at 12:06 PM, Will Robertson wrote:
> On 4 Oct 2004, at 11:31 AM, Will Robertson wrote:
>
>> I checked your problem just then and experienced the exact same thing
>> as you, until I changed
>> \usepackage{graphicx}
>> to
>> \usepackage[xetex]{graphics}
>
> I actually meant
> \usepackage[xetex]{graphicx}
> that second time.
OK, the [xetex] option to graphicx was not implicit.
(I'll have to fix my graphics.cfg to make it so!)
But the problem still persists for XeTeX,
using \XeTeXpdffile instead of \includegraphics ...
Oops, no -- it works, when the syntax is correct!
\XeTeXpdffile
"../../../Library/TeXShop/DraggedImages/texshop_image.pdf"
is the correct command, not
\XeTeXpdffile{../../../Library/TeXShop/DraggedImages/texshop_image.pdf}
.
Sorry for the false alarm.
Thanks Will.
Ross
>
> Oops,
> W
>
> _______________________________________________
> XeTeX mailing list
> postmaster at tug.org
> http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ross Moore ross at maths.mq.edu.au
Mathematics Department office: E7A-419
Macquarie University tel: +61 +2 9850 8955
Sydney, Australia fax: +61 +2 9850 8114
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 04:04:30 +0200
From: Musa Furber <musaf at runbox.com>
Subject: Re: [XeTeX] I have broken XeTeX
To: Unicode-based TeX for Mac OS X <xetex at tug.org>
Message-ID: <BA23D539-15A9-11D9-96DE-000D9350852C at runbox.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
On 3 Oct 2004, at 19:45, Will Robertson wrote:
> On 4 Oct 2004, at 3:00 AM, Robert Voogdgeert wrote:
>
>>> Segmentation fault
>> Wil,
>>
>> I'm far from a TeXnician, so I don't know whether it's related, but
>> the segmentation fault
>> was a problem Burno and I also expierenced too. There was a thread I
>> think some weeks ago.
>
> Ah yes. Turns out a *restart* is required for Mac OS X to forget about
> fonts that may have been installed. Or at least, it was for my case.
> Sorry for the noise, back to work now.
In some cases, one needs to clear out the font cache after removing the
font. Perhaps OS X startup clears the font cache upon reboot.
When I had this problem a few months back, removing the offending
font(s) and clearing the cache was enough to resolve the segmentation
fault error.
Jonathan: is this in the FAQ?
Regards,
Musa
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:08:39 +0200
From: Bruno Voisin <bvoisin at mac.com>
Subject: Re: [XeTeX] Upper Case numbers in Hoefler Text??
To: Unicode-based TeX for Mac OS X <xetex at tug.org>
Message-ID: <99A441A4-15DC-11D9-8774-000A95928A38 at mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed
Le 4 oct. 04, ? 01:54, christopher ciotti a ?crit :
> I'm new to XeTeX (just a few hours) and I'm having some trouble
> putting together font def files. I wanted to make a few to represent
> the different flavors of Hoefler Text (they are based on an email from
> Bruno Voisin to the TeX on OSX mailing list). When I make a def for
> italic, proportional (or tabular) upper case numbers, I get the
> default old-style figures in everything but regular text (which works
> as expected). Can someone check this out for errors? Thanks in
> advance.
The problem is not with your declarations, but with Apple's shipping of
Hoefler Text: your names for the "Number Case" AAT feature are
consistent, but the ones Apple uses are completely irrational and
inconsistent. It's a bug which I think Jonathan Kew has reported to
Apple.
To get uppercase numbers, and other features, right, I had to open all
four Hoefler Text fonts (regular, black, italic and black italic) in
TextEdit, acces the Typography panel (Cmd-T then click on the scroll
wheel icon at the bottom left of the panel then Typography?), then
tediously find the names for each feature.
> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%
> \DeclareFontFamily{U}{hoeftxt}{}
> \DeclareFontShape{U}{hoeftxt}{m}{n} {<-> "Hoefler\space Text:
> Ligatures=Common\space Ligatures;
> Number\space Spacing=Proportional\space Numbers;
> Number\space Case=Upper\space Case\space Numbers;
> Character\space Alternates=Alternates"}{}
>
> \DeclareFontShape{U}{hoeftxt}{m}{it} {<-> "Hoefler\space Text\space
> Italic:
> Ligatures=Common\space Ligatures;
> Number\space Spacing=Proportional\space Number;
Missing "s" at "Number".
> Numbers\space Case=Upper\space Case\space Numbers;
Should be: "Number\space Case=Uppercase\space Numbers".
> Character\space Alternates=Alternates"}{}
Should be: "Character\space Alternatives=Normal\space Vertical\space
Position" (sic!).
~~
> \DeclareFontShape{U}{hoeftxt}{b}{n} {<-> "Hoefler\space Text\space
> Black:
> Number\space Spacing=Proportional\space Numbers;
> Number\space Case=Upper\space Case\space Numbers;
Should be: "Number\space Case=Diphthong\space Ligatures" (sic!).
> Character\space Alternates=Alternates"}{}
Should be: "Character\space Alternatives=Alternates".
~~
>
> \DeclareFontShape{U}{hoeftxt}{b}{it} {<-> "Hoefler\space Text\space
> Black\space Italic:
> Number\space Spacing=Proportional\space Numbers;
> Number\space Case=Upper\space Case\space Numbers;
Should be: "Number\space Case=Normal\space Vertical\space Position"
(sic!).
> Character\space Alternates=Alternates"}{}
Should be: "Character\space Alternatives=Lower\space Case\space
Numbers" (sic!).
~~
>
> \DeclareFontShape{U}{hoeftxt}{m}{sc} {<-> "Hoefler\space Text:
> Letter\space Case=Small\space Caps;
> Character\space Alternates=Alternates"}{}
>
> \DeclareFontShape{U}{hoeftxt}{b}{sc} {<-> "Hoefler\space Text\space
> Black:
> Letter\space Case=Small\space Caps;
> Character\space Alternates=Alternates"}{}
Should be: "Character\space Alternatives=Alternates".
~~
Sorry, my original post included (I think) the correct declarations,
but I didn't stress enough Apple's bugs and their fixes.
Bruno Voisin
------------------------------
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