[tldistro] tlmgr lose functions in packages built from source

[Norbert Preining]

On Do, 19 Nov 2009, Grissiom wrote:
> So you mean package builders should remove _all_ of the tlmgr staff in their
> package? Even I have found some tlmgr staff
> in texlive-20091107-texmf.tar.xz:

Wht is in there is (together with other things) what constitutes
TeX Live 2009. What distributors package is a different thing.

I (putting on the Debian hat) have packaged TL2009 for Debian in a way
that for example it announces itself (tex, pdftex --version etc) as
	TeX Live 2009/Debian
*and* we removed all the files related to the following tlps:
- texlive.infra
- texlive-msg-translations
- telxive-scripts (AFAIR)

Simple reason: Do you want to ship something which does not work?
tlmgr is ment to be used in a very specific layout of texmf trees, 
location of binaries etc, simply the way TeX Live 2009 as it is
when installed from DVD/Net looks like.

If oyu move the trees, put your binaries somewhere else (Debian has
the binaries in /usr/bin, all the texmf treees of TL merged into
/usr/share/texmf-texlive, ...) it simply will not work. And, especially,
the update mechanism will not work even if you manage to *start* tlmgr,
since it will put files in completely different places.

Actually, I am surprised that people are packaging stuff they seem to 
have never used? Did you check the functionality of tlmgr? Does it work
with the packaging system of your distribution?

Why do you think Debian, but also Suse, has removed those files. You
cannot have both, tlmgr *and* distribution specific packaging.

Please *EVERYONE* here on the list, before packaging make yourself 
comfortable with *what* those programs are doing, and only *afterwards*
start packaging. 

We (as upstreeam TL) would prefer if people get a good experience with
TL, also with the distribution packages. But if we see many people
coming like "I have TL on distribution XY, and tlmgr does not work"
that is not what we want. 

Thanks

> Are they also supposed to be removed by the package builder?

Well, "supposed" is up to you! We as TL Team do not suppose *anything*,
it is *your* job to make out a good way to package the stuff. Look
into the Debian packages, not that they are perfect (far from), but
they show a way how to package it.

Suse did a differen approach packaging all in one big package (AFAIR),
that might be interesting, too, to look at.

So again, *we* do not suppose anything. *AND* we do *NOT* support anything
but our installation method. Any questions concerning the packaging will
be redirected to the distribution guys (and I count myself into both
corners, and I am fine with that).

Best wishes

Norbert

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Dr. Norbert Preining                                        Associate Professor
JAIST Japan Advanced Institute of Science and Technology   preining at jaist.ac.jp
Vienna University of Technology                               preining at logic.at
Debian Developer (Debian TeX Task Force)                    preining at debian.org
gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094      fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76  A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094
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