[tlbuild] texlive and politics...

[Norbert Preining]

Hi Thomas, hi all,

although it is not really tlbuild related, it is not a bad idea
because on the main list there are too many people talking without
being really involved.

On 03/19/2012 04:51 PM, Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:
> If this is true, this would make the texlive effort a crusade for
> software freedom defined in very narrow terms. I know that there are
> some good reasons for this narrow view, but I find this direction too
> draconian.

I see your point, but please keep what Karl wrote in his
email in mind, here are a few points:
* the package is not banished from the TeX world, it is still
   on CTAN, can be included in tlcontrib, and everyone can use it
* it only is targeted at packages that are *solely* relying on
   something that is not available on free terms (not as in free
   beer, but in open source). If it is reasonable useful under
   other circumstances, then it is fine
* removal of a package (or not inclusion now) does not mean it
   will never be included again, if circumstances change

Think about, nobody cried out so loud when we removed font metrics
for commercial fonts, or other packages that are solely based on
commercial programs (was it R?, don't remember now).

Including things as specified above would mean that there is no
limit of inclusion, because there is no reasonable
way to say: yes, this is good, no this is bad. So we would have
to include *all* the other commercial-products related stuff.

One more thing, before it comes up again: The discussion about
standards etc etc. Standards are only useful if they are implemented.
How many so called standards have been pushed through by Microsoft
and Apple and Google and whoever through apparently not so neutral
gremia, standards that are protected by licenses that have to be
bought at "reasonable prize" ... no, that is not our piece of cake.


Come on ... is it so hard for one of all those crying out to just
get the last movie15 package, or the successor, and upload it to
tlcontrib?

And also, as Karl wrote, if there is the wish to fork TeX Live,
or take over our jobs, everyone is invited to do so. But I hope
that Karl remains with his decision, not because I hate movieNN,
nor do I hate AA, I just find it consistent and reasonable.

Ahhh one last point - if anyone starts calling us license zealots,
free software freaks, whatever: I have to say I am also Debian
Developer, and I *hate* the stance of Debian to not even allow
documents in pdf format that use commercial fonts, unless the
document is rebuild with open fonts. In TeX Live we don't
care for that, and I am very happy about that.

I honestly believe that in TeX Live we are taking a quite reasonable
stance, far from what we are now accused of being.

Thanks for reading so far

Norbert