[tlbuild] [tex-live] texlive install overwrites /usr/bin/man

[Norbert Preining]

Hi Bruce,

in addition to what Peter wrote, here my answers.

On So, 20 Nov 2011, Bruce Dubbs wrote:
> http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/view/svn/pst/texlive.html

Quite a lot things are wrong here. First the "Introduction"; TeX Live
is not a *forked successor* of teTeX. Secondly,teTeX was never maintained
by TUG (AFAIR). Thirdly: THe "Additional Download" is actual a
*NECESSARY* download.

> What installer?  I don't see it mentioned in the README files.  When I  

Did you read the web pages linked from www.tug.org/texlive, esp:
http://www.tug.org/texlive/quickinstall.html

> run ./configure --help, I get a ton of options, but I don't see any  
> mention of an installer there or in the README files.

The files in the source tar ball are NOT A TEX SYSTEM!!! How many
times we have to repeat it. They alone are not useful at all.

> Let me expose my ignorance.  What is the difference between TeX Live and  
> having the binaries and support files in place?

Thatis right. But the problem is that "having the support files in place"
is a major difficulty.

BTW; did you *EVER* install a TeX Live system yourself?
Before even *THINKING* about writing some packaging and explanation,
please do that:
- grab the network installer from
	http://mirror.ctan.org/systems/texlive/tlnet/install-tl-unx.tar.gz
- unpack and run it
- select "scheme-minimal" (this is what comes closest to your idea
  of "essential" probably)
- start installation
- look at the outcome!!

The "having the support files in place" is not that trivial, you might
take a look at the installer.

Or, since that is actually what you want to do, read
	README.distro
and at the bottom there are some information.

Or look at any of the distributions with packages for TeX Live, Debian,
Suse, Fedora, *BSD, ... they all did their own packaging in different
ways.

> I know.  How does one install only the essential parts of TeX Live?

Run install-tl, and select scheme-minimal.

> LFS has a saying: "Your distro, your rules."  We try to provide guidance  
> to others about the implications of their rules.  TeX Live is a huge  
> package with many, many programs.  Are you saying that there is only  
> 'one true way' to build/install it?

Not at all. There are many distros packaging TeX Live in different way.
But the difference is that the people packaging TeX Live there have
most of the time *USED* TeX Live before and know about it....
something you seem to completely lack.

> But the documentation is insufficient for building it the "right" way.  

No. It clearly states 
	run ./Build
... and if you are able to read the Build script you see that the
build is done out of tree in a sepearte dir.

> Actually, it's not really the build process that is a big problem, it is  
> the install.  It puts things in non-standard places and overwrites  
> /usr/bin/man.  Why are man files not just placed in /usr/share/man?

Because the install is NOT meant to be used that way. For your information
what happens here: 
- we ask builders to run the Build scrip
- then they send us the binaries as put into inst/bin/*arch-os*/
- we put them into the svn archive under Master/bin/*arch-os*/
- people use our installer (install-tl) to install all the files
  (binaries, support, ...), run the necessary scripts, etc.

That is all there is to the sources, there is NO provision to run 
an actual installation in the scripts. Everything related to
	make install
is only to get things in the right format with links etc to the right
dirs, so that it fits into the TeX Live status.

> BYW, I'm not ignorant about TeX.  I first used it in 1991 and have all 5  
> of the TeX/MF books.  Read them too for the most part.  :)  I just  
> haven't kept up with TeX Live.

Then *why* do you try to package it???

Why not first simply *install* it?

I assume you also read through all the pages in http://www.tug.org/texlive?

After you have installed, used, checked where and what files are,
you can think about *how* to adapt that for linuxfromscratch. 

Best wishes

Norbert
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norbert Preining            preining@{jaist.ac.jp, logic.at, debian.org}
JAIST, Japan                                 TeX Live & Debian Developer
DSA: 0x09C5B094   fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76  A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094
------------------------------------------------------------------------
BOOLTEENS
The small scatterings of foreign coins and half-p's which inhabit
dressing tables. Since they are never used and never thrown away
boolteens account for a significant drain on the world's money supply.
			--- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff