<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 9:49 PM Bob Tennent <<a href="mailto:rdtennent@gmail.com">rdtennent@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
You misunderstood my question. Obviously the texlive<br>
collections are disjoint from the set of fonts supported by<br>
getnonfreefonts. But in your rant the only positive note was<br>
your praise of getnonfreefonts and I was wondering why you<br>
weren't happy with font installation in texlive.<br>
<br>
None of your examples are supported by texlive so it's not<br>
a surprise that they didn't work even in a complete texlive<br>
system.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I want to be very clear that I am extremely happy with TerXLive.</div><div>TeXlive is a shiny star in the TeX eco-system. I live by it, I work </div><div>with it all day long.</div><div><br></div><div>I am extremely unhappy with these systems that do not talk to </div><div>each other, like, for example, the Font Catalogue saying that </div><div>something should work -- while it does not on the best TeX installation</div><div>there is.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
So I now understand that you're unhappy with installation<br>
of font families *not* in texlive and *not* supported by<br>
getnonfreefonts. Also not really a surprise.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Correct. I have I have (more than one) TeX font-developer </div><div>that work for me, and when asked to do a font installation,</div><div>simply do it incorrectly.</div><div><br></div><div>It is not an easy task -- just like installing TeX in mid-90's </div><div>was a nightmare -- and needs to be automated and made</div><div>transparent to users.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
For example I looked at the emerald package at<br>
<a href="https://ctan.org/pkg/emerald" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://ctan.org/pkg/emerald</a>. The licence precludes<br>
distribution in texlive. At the CTAN site one can find<br>
a link to a zipped archive of the package which can be<br>
downloaded and unzipped. As explained in the README, the<br>
subdirectories<br></blockquote><div> </div><div><br></div><div>It is not me Bob! It is thousands of people out there that would like</div><div>to use and are reading these outdated instruction, and have no idea</div><div>of what to do.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">............<br>
The next instructions in the README are somewhat obsolete.<br>
In current texlive, one updates the file database<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>You see ... this depends on people that know the history and know </div><div>exactly how it has evolved unde TeXlive, etc ...</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
texhash ~/texmf <br>
<br>
and then executes<br>
<br>
updmap-user --enable Map emerald.map<br>
<br>
You should then be ready to go with examples. Unfortunately,<br>
there are no source examples in the archive, in particular<br>
for the main documentation file emerald.pdf. Here is a small<br>
example:<br>...........................................<br>
<br>
The command \ECFMovieola comes from emerald.sty.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>And on this situation there are some other 15 to 20 packages.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
I admit this is all clumsier than one would like. The<br>
author should have supplied a TDS-compatible tree, should<br>
be keeping the README up to date, and should have supplied<br>
source examples.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>Of course! But you can see that -- a newcomer cannot.</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">But CTAN are not willing to enforce such requirements. </blockquote><div><br></div><div>And that is too bad. We should be willing to re-package a </div><div>few things -- because we already do it for a number of </div><div>packages and for the easy of use of the fonts.</div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Caveat emptor. TeXLive provides dozens of high<br>
quality fonts and getnonfreefonts supports several more.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>"getnonfreefonts" has a special place here. It is the best framework </div><div>we have for font-installation -- in general. It is capable of installing </div><div>the few that they "assume" and a bunch of others that they do not </div><div>assume. </div><div><br></div><div>You may have seen Reinhard's e-mail and what he said -- but in </div><div>contrast -- we use it all the time to install MTProII, MinionPro, and</div><div>several other ones. You just place the files in /tmp and a few mods</div><div>will take care of it.</div><div><br></div><div>We should invest on that, even if the author has abandoned the</div><div>development of his package. We should list the orphan packages</div><div>visibly on CTAN, so people that know it could help.</div><div><br></div><div>We do a LOT of patches on programs to include them om TeXLive,</div><div>just look at "detex". Why not do it with fonts?<br></div><div><br></div><div>We should make TeX easier to use and a lot of that goes back </div><div>to fonts.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">If you wander away from these, you'll have to learn to cope<br>
with what's available.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>My point is -- the user should not -- if that is a part of the LaTeX</div><div>Font Catalogue.</div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
>|There are both Commercial and Free versions. The Free<br>
>|version could easily be dealt with by "getnonfreefonts".<br></blockquote></div><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>If so, you should suggest it to the maintainer.</div></div></blockquote><div class="gmail_quote"><div> </div><div><br></div><div>I have personally talked to Reinhard about that, but I don't </div><div>think he recognizes the difference it can make to a TeX user.</div><div><br></div><div>There is this "interpretation" that AFPL says you are not </div><div>allowed to sell anything with it, including a DVD -- and that</div><div>is patent erroneous. AFPL forbids you from making money</div><div>and running a profit with it, but not for charging the cost... </div><div>but there is NO profit in making TeXLive DVS's.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
>|This is one of the reasons why the XeTeX/LuaTeX font<br>
>|handling is so nice -- from the point of view of the user<br>
>|-- it leaves your TL tree undisturbed.<br>
<br>
The texmf tree you should be disturbing is your personal<br>
tree ~/texmf, not the TeXLive dist tree.<br></blockquote><div> </div><div><br></div><div>Which is NOT what most of these installations do, including </div><div>the ones recommended by getnonfreefonts.</div><div><br></div><div>Also not what you do if you trying to build an environment </div><div>to be used by several people.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Paulo Ney</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Best,<br>
Bob T.<br>
</blockquote></div></div>