<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Sat, 8 Dec 2018 at 03:34, Denis Bitouzé <<a href="mailto:denis.bitouze@univ-littoral.fr" target="_blank">denis.bitouze@univ-littoral.fr</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Le 07/12/18 à 21h01, David Carlisle a écrit :<br>
<br>
> On Fri, 7 Dec 2018 at 20:45, Denis Bitouzé<br>
> <<a href="mailto:denis.bitouze@univ-littoral.fr" target="_blank">denis.bitouze@univ-littoral.fr</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Le 08/12/18 à 00h13, Norbert Preining a écrit :<br>
>><br>
>> > On Fri, 07 Dec 2018, Denis Bitouzé wrote:<br>
>> >> > [...] I think this is just a stupid dead-end of Microsoft trials.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> I don't see what you mean here.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > MS is trying to lock users into the MS Store by this. But due to the<br>
>> > limited software, most users will need to "leave the S-mode", which<br>
>> > makes it a useless complication.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>According to <<a href="https://www.pcworld.com/article/3212258/windows/windows-10-s-review.html">https://www.pcworld.com/article/3212258/windows/windows-10-s-review.html</a>>,</div><div>S-mode will be preinstalled on some low-end systems that target students.</div><div><br></div><div>S-mode smells of a desperate move to counter inroads by chromebook </div><div>in schools, so it is not about "most users", but more the hope that the numbers</div><div>of school users will increase. It could also be popular for call centers, payroll, </div><div>finance, hospitals, real estate and legal offices, etc. that suffer during World</div><div>Cup football and Olympics when employees slurp up malware.</div><div> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
>><br>
>> I see. I fully agree.<br>
>> --<br>
>> Denis<br>
>><br>
> the S mode isn't really aimed at readers of this list but I don't<br>
> think we need to be negative about it, Operating system isn't always<br>
> an end user choice. </blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
I think we need to be negative if it is so much constraining.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It is a fact of life. Readers of this list probably won't choose </div><div>S-mode, but may encounter it when students or colleagues </div><div>show up with chromebook-class Windows systems.</div><br class="gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"><div> I don't recall seeing a "System Requirements" section in the </div><div>TL installation pages, perhaps because, until now, few </div><div>current systems couldn't support some configuration of TL. If </div><div>Microsoft is successful at making inroads into the Chromebook</div><div>market, some warning that TL can't be installed will be needed.</div><div><a href="https://latex.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26009">https://latex.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26009</a> mentions options,<br></div><div>either a web-based TeX system or by installing a linux distro. </div><div>It would be helpful to have a section on chromebook-class</div><div>systems with pointers to web-based TeX systems. </div><div> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
> Even if it is a user choice, if someone buys something like a surface<br>
> go with a locked down s mode operating system and no commandline<br>
> possibilities and very few possibilities for installing software,<br>
> telling them to disable s mode may not be the best advice if they<br>
> don't want a commandline,<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Large organizations that provide S-mode systems will not allow </div><div>users to disable S-mode, install linux, or otherwise defeat the </div><div>restrictions. </div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
In the LaTeX case, the commandline is often hidden by TeX IDEs. So<br>
users may both want LaTeX and not want commandline<br>
<br>
> especially as they can't undo that change...<br>
<br>
That's the point: too much constraining.<br>
<br>
> In many ways something like overleaf is a far more natural fit for<br>
> such a machine, and steering people in that direction may be a better<br>
> alternative than telling them to reconfigure their operating system.<br>
<br>
Except that, IMHO, Overleaf's editor provides too few features compared<br>
to real IDEs, such as Emacs or TeXstudio.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Think of the MacBook Air users who use LaTeX to prepare documents</div><div>while away from their office. Much of this work involves basic editing</div><div>and writing and could easily be done using a web-based system such </div><div>as Overleaf. Web-based tools like Overleaf can be used on cheap, </div><div>lightweight systems with longer battery life than MacBook Air. If your </div><div>system is damaged or stolen you can be back to work faster and at</div><div>lower cost. You don't have to install MacTeX and your recent edits </div><div>are saved in the cloud. For many people that alone is worth the cost </div><div>of a web-based tool like Overleaf. </div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Moreover, I guess the student who encountered this problem doesn't have<br>
enough money for an Internet subscription with an Internet Service<br>
Provider and has only a limited Internet access with his cell phone.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>The systems that S-mode targets don't make sense without full-time </div><div>connectivity. I understand there have been problems for low-income </div><div>students using chromebooks but only have internet access using their</div><div>school's wifi. Some of those students do find a way to have linux on</div><div>an old laptop that is considered too limited to run current Windows </div><div>versions so costs less than a chromebook. </div><div><br></div></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail-m_591202126542699796gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div>George N. White III<br><br></div></div></div></div></div></div>