[tex-live] possible bug or mistake ...

Zdenek Wagner zdenek.wagner at gmail.com
Sun Aug 6 02:14:50 CEST 2017 

2017-08-06 0:31 GMT+02:00 Paulo Ney de Souza <pauloney at gmail.com>:

> Two developments today:
>
> Herbert updated pst-barcode to embedd the fonts. CTAN will be updated
> shortly.
>
> I did confirm what Paulo Cereda said, Fedora 26 does not exhibit the
> problem. In fact after checking some other machines, the problem seems to
> be bound to Ubuntu.
>

That's exactly what I have written: if the fonts are not embedded, you
never know what happens if you give the file to somebody else.

Zdeněk Wagner
http://ttsm.icpf.cas.cz/team/wagner.shtml
http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz



>
> Paulo Ney
>
> On Sat, Aug 5, 2017 at 4:57 AM, Zdenek Wagner <zdenek.wagner at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> 2017-08-05 10:10 GMT+02:00 Norbert Preining <preining at logic.at>:
>>
>>> > The other one is - TL installation and maintenance should not
>>> interfere with the way Evince displays a PDF. It works fine before and then
>>> it breaks after the installation. As Norbert said it is probably doing
>>> something really wrong with those two fonts.
>>>
>>>
>>> It is not the TL installation, but the fact that you did make available
>>> all fonts to fontconfig. This is an optional step and of course influences
>>> *every* program that uses fontconfig.
>>>
>>> They ask for a font name like "Helvetica" and fontconfig returns
>>> whatever thinks for best to it. By adding a bunch of fonts, several
>>> providing the name Helvetica or something similar, there will be a change.
>>>
>>
>> It is even more complex:
>> 1. Each PDF viewer has its own substitution rules
>> 2. Fontconfig has its own suibstitution rules
>>
>> It is hard to say which rule wins. In addition, fonconfig is built in
>> such a way that it always returns a glyph. If the glyph does not exist in
>> the current font, it takes it from another font. Suppose that you want to
>> typeset città and you select a font containing only US ASCII. Fontconfig
>> returns c, i, t from the selected font but à is not there, fonconfig
>> therefore selects it from another font which it considers compatible.
>>
>> Okular has the most useful substitution rules at least for the documents
>> that I have to read but embedding is the only reliable solution. Do not
>> waste time by tweaking substitutions, it may work on your computer but you
>> will be surprised what can happen if you give your files to someone else.
>>
>>>
>>> Nothing TL can influence or change.
>>>
>>> Norbert
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Zdeněk Wagner
>> http://ttsm.icpf.cas.cz/team/wagner.shtml
>> http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On August 5, 2017 6:19:55 AM GMT+09:00, Paulo Ney de Souza <
>>> pauloney at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Zdenek,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for putting laying bare what is going on.
>>>>
>>>> There are two issues here, one that is not TL's problem which is
>>>> PST-barcode producing files with Helvetica and Courier when the user has
>>>> not requested - it should use just plain standard TeX fonts, most probably
>>>> LM fonts, and use Helvetica and Courier only if the user so requests. I'll
>>>> take the issue up with Herbert.
>>>>
>>>> The other one is - TL installation and maintenance should not interfere
>>>> with the way Evince displays a PDF. It works fine before and then it breaks
>>>> after the installation. As Norbert said it is probably doing something
>>>> really wrong with those two fonts.
>>>>
>>>> Paulo Ney
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Zdenek Wagner <zdenek.wagner at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> 2017-08-04 22:37 GMT+02:00 Paulo Ney de Souza <pauloney at gmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Zdenek,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I did expect that embedding was the problem I was seeing, but I am
>>>>>> after the source of the problem -- because:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1- XeLaTeX embeds fonts by default, so if in this simple case it is
>>>>>> not embedding, something is wrong, possibly with PST-barcode, possibly
>>>>>> XeTeX.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> XeLaTeX embeds fonts if it is requested in the config file of
>>>>> xdvipdfmx which is the default (for good reasons). PST-barcode creates an
>>>>> EPS file and dvipdfmx inserts it to the output PDF. The fonts are embedded
>>>>> only if they are embedded in the EPS file which is not the case.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2- I have tons of files that do NOT have embedded Courier and
>>>>>> Helvetica (created by other tools) on my machine. The installation of TL
>>>>>> should not mess up with my ability to view them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The algorithms for representing unembedded fonts are quite complex and
>>>>> are defined in the config files of the viewers. A subtle change in te font
>>>>> name or font id may play a significant role. In addition, you never know
>>>>> what are the exact substitution rule in a particular viewer. TL does not
>>>>> interact with the PDF viewers.  Of course, you can manually install TL
>>>>> fonts so that a particular PDF viewer will find them but you never know
>>>>> what happens if you give the file without embedded fonts to someone else. I
>>>>> have seen a lot of different problems, some of them really weird. And a few
>>>>> years ago it cost me quite a lot of money because the phototypesetter
>>>>> intepreted them in a really different way than my printer. Thus
>>>>> verification of at least partial compatibility with PDF/X or PDF/A is a
>>>>> must.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paulo Ney
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Zdeněk Wagner
>>>>> http://ttsm.icpf.cas.cz/team/wagner.shtml
>>>>> http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 11:11 PM, Zdenek Wagner <
>>>>>> zdenek.wagner at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Paulo,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> pdffonts says in our case emb=no which means that the font is not
>>>>>>> present in the PDF. The rendering engines is then (almost) free to do
>>>>>>> whatever it wants. Usually the engines have their built-in fonts. If a font
>>>>>>> with the same name is found, it is usually used but it need not be the
>>>>>>> intended font. If it is not found, the rendering engine often has
>>>>>>> replacement rules and selects a font. If there is no matching replacement
>>>>>>> rule, either a default font is used or nothing is displayed at all. Thius
>>>>>>> is why documents without embedded fonts look differently in different
>>>>>>> viewers. Usually ghostscript has reasonalbe replacements so you can often
>>>>>>> fix the problem by post-processing the PDF file by ps2pdf (yes, it is able
>>>>>>> to build another PDF from a PDF).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Zdeněk Wagner
>>>>>>> http://ttsm.icpf.cas.cz/team/wagner.shtml
>>>>>>> http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2017-08-04 5:29 GMT+02:00 Paulo Ney de Souza <pauloney at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I imagine people are doing this for the sake of XeTeX, and not
>>>>>>>> really to use TeX fonts in LibreOffice...so it should be on TL's lap the
>>>>>>>> responsibility to get these fonts to XeTeX without damaging anything else
>>>>>>>> on the machine - specially a PDF viewer, like Evince.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It definitely should come out of the manual -- because under the
>>>>>>>> tow of that section, tons of people are recommending that all over SX and
>>>>>>>> other places. Better yet, the section should probably say
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>      ** DO NOT DO THIS ** It was recommended in the past, but we
>>>>>>>> know better now that ....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In the TeX world we are acquainted with a lot of blind-recipes like
>>>>>>>> updmap, mktexlsr, texhash, ... some of them people have no idea what is
>>>>>>>> going on, so if it is  a recipe out there - it should be a good one!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I still do not know who is at fault here... Is it the PDF file?
>>>>>>>> PST-barcode? fc-cache? The machine? Evince?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Paulo Ney
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 6:32 PM, Norbert Preining <preining at logic.at
>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ok, a bit more relaxed answer ...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> > cp $(kpsewhich -var-value TEXMFSYSVAR)/fonts/conf/texliv
>>>>>>>>> e-fontconfig.conf
>>>>>>>>> > /etc/fonts/conf.d/09-texlive.conf
>>>>>>>>> > fc-cache -fsv
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I know that this is in the manual, but I *STRONGLY* advice against
>>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>> There are some broken fonts, some that mess up fontconfig due to
>>>>>>>>> naming
>>>>>>>>> issues, all kind of bad things can happen. In Debian I have been
>>>>>>>>> pushed
>>>>>>>>> to do this for long time, but always rejected and recommend people
>>>>>>>>> adding only those fonts one by one that they are actually use.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just my 2Yen
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Norbert
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> PREINING Norbert
>>>>>>>>> http://www.preining.info
>>>>>>>>> Accelia Inc.     +    JAIST     +    TeX Live     +    Debian
>>>>>>>>> Developer
>>>>>>>>> GPG: 0x860CDC13   fp: F7D8 A928 26E3 16A1 9FA0 ACF0 6CAC A448 860C
>>>>>>>>> DC13
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> PREINING Norbert + TeX Live & Debian Developer +
>>> http://www.preining.info
>>> GPG: 0x860CDC13 fp: F7D8 A928 26E3 16A1 9FA0 ACF0 6CAC A448 860C DC13
>>>
>>
>>
>
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