[tex-live] removing belleek from TeXLive

[Norbert Preining]

Hi,

many many points ..

On Mo, 09 Aug 2010, Beuthe, Thomas wrote:
> While installing the mathtime fonts, it came to my attention that pdfLaTeX gets confused
> And ends up not using the mathtime fonts for certain things.

Well known, I have the same circumstances, and don't see a problem.

> I would have preferred a more generalized method, so I tried uninstalling the
> belleek package from the TeXLive Windows Manager (GUI).
> At first it didn't want to uninstall it because belleek is needed by other packages.
> I was still using the "older" TeXLive manager, and it has a checkbox to "force" the uninstall,
> And using this seemed to work, although there were some strange error messages that said

Which strange error message? Unless you can provide them I cannot help.

> I has not uninstalled belleek.  But the belleek entry in the updmap.cfg now had a #! In front
> of it, and when I checked the appropriate map files, they also no longer had the belleek font entries in them.

So that is fine.

> Was this the appropriate way of removing belleek?

Reading the documentation of tlmgr - maybe????

There you could have found under the "generate" action:
       For "updmap", however, "tlmgr" does not use "generate", because the
       result would be to disable all maps which have been manually installed
       via "updmap-sys --enable", e.g., for proprietary or local fonts.  The
       "generate" action only incorporates the changes in the "--localcfg"
       file mentioned below.  Furthermore, "tlmgr" updates and maintains the
       final "updmap.cfg" in "TEXMFSYSCONFIG" (while the other files are in
       "TEXMFSYSVAR"), because that is the location that "updmap-sys" (via
       "tcfmgr") uses.

       Notwithstanding the above, if you only use the fonts and font packages
       within TeX Live, and maintain your local fonts (if any) using
       "updmap-local.cfg", there is nothing wrong with using "generate
       updmap".  Indeed, we use it ourselves to generate the "updmap.cfg" file
       in the live source repository.
and further down
        #!NAME
         %!NAME
         --!NAME

       where "fmtutil.cnf" and "updmap.cfg" use "#", "language.dat" and
       "language.def" use "%", and "language.dat.lua" use "--".  In any case,
       the name is the respective format name, map file name (include the
       ".map" extension), or hyphenation pattern identifier.  Examples:

         #!pdflatex
         #!lm.map
         %!german
         --!usenglishmax

So by simply putting
	#!belleek.map
and calling tlmgr generate updmap you would have been settled.


Another option, as hinted in the above quoted man page, and about 
as easy to find on the internet is the already mentioned
	updmap-sys --disable belleek.map
which would have been the same effect.

So you are complaining about one of the most asked questions, a simple
google would have given you loads of answers to this.

We *on*purpose* tweaked tlmgr so that the recommendations all over the
internet (namely using updmap-sys --enable/disable) will still work
with our new system, so please use it.

> Does the "force" do what I think it does (remove anyway, in spite of dependencies)?

Yes, as specified in the documentation of tlmgr, available in the
following places: tlmgr help, weg page on tug.org, and probably some others.

> Knowing that the manager has an update< I decided to try it on for size.
> When I attached to the internet repository, the manager dutifully informed me that an update
> for the texlive manager was available and it could not do anything until I updated it.
> So I said yes, and the update promptly failed and I had to do it manually.
> Not too impressive.

??? What do you mean with
	"...promptly failed and I had to do it manually."
I am 100% sure that you do NOT know how to upgrade tlmgr by hand, i.e.
getting the right packages, un-xz-ing them, untar-ing them in the right
place, including the new .tlps into the texlive.tlpdb, ...

So what onearth do you think is "manually"?

Or wait ... are you complaining that you had to type
	tlmgr update --self
on the command line? THen it might be a bug in the GUI, which can happen,
it is a *front*end* to tlmgr...

> Then I started up the new update manager and tried to uninstall belleek.

You already had belleek fonts disabled??? What else do you want?

> I was told that belleek cannot be uninstalled because it is needed by collection-fontsextra,

Yes, that is true. And on purpose.

> and for the life of me I could not find a "force" option anywhere (did I miss something?)

No, it is not present in the GUI anymore. If you feel so comfortable
with messing around in the internals and overriding decisions in
packaging we made, then you have to use the command line. 

> Alright then, what about uninstalling collection-fontsextra?
> No can do, because the collection-fontsextra dependent on scheme-full and scheme-gutenberg...
> 
> So what to do?

Why not simply keep it as it is?????

Do you have any problems now?

> And another thing.
> The manager action depend on the repository being present.

Rubbish. It loads the remote repository *only* for those actions
needed.

Of course if you ask it to update packages the remote repository has
to be present.

You are sooooo unspecific, can you please try to write meaningful
complains:
	"The manager actiondepend on the repository being present"
*WHICH* action:
	tlmgr search 		(without --global)  doe snot neeed
	tlmgr list 		does not need
	tlmgr remove 		does not need
	tlmgr backup 		does not need
	tlmgr install		needs
	tlmgr update		needs
etc etc.

But hell, how should tlmgr know what to update without having a connection?

Have you tried updating your Windows or Linux Desktop without internet
connection? Did it work --- I would be impressed!

> This could end up being a major pain for anyone using a laptop (not me, but now the majority of
> just about everyone... First year students: 90+%) because they would have to run around
> with a copy of the DVD at all times...

Ahh, you mean the DVD, so what about, as mentined on TOP of the documentation
in example invocation:
	tlmgr option repository some/other/repository
???? 

Arrggghhh, I sometimes ask myself why people are not able to READ, andwhy
I invest time in writing these documentation if you not even care for looking
into the first lines?
tlmgr help (or web page) mentions on the top:
EXAMPLES
....
       "tlmgr option repository http://mirror.ctan.org/systems/texlive/tlnet"
           Tell "tlmgr" to use a nearby CTAN mirror for future updates; useful
           if you installed TeX Live from the DVD image.
....

Is that sooo hard to digest???

> Right now I'm uninstalling TeXLive completely, loading up the entire repository on hard disk,
> And reinstalling from there just for fun... :-)

And why??? Why not
	tlmgr option repository /path/to/local/checkout/
??? That is the much faster option!

> Comments welcome!

Here they are, and in short: RTFM!!!!!!

Norbert
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norbert Preining            preining@{jaist.ac.jp, logic.at, debian.org}
JAIST, Japan                                 TeX Live & Debian Developer
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