<div dir="ltr">I used \showlists (after the implicit \par).</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Sep 3, 2022 at 8:40 PM <<a href="mailto:Laurence.Finston@gmx.net">Laurence.Finston@gmx.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:12px"><div> </div>
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<div style="margin:0px 0px 10px"><b>Gesendet:</b> Sonntag, 04. September 2022 um 05:39 Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> <a href="mailto:Laurence.Finston@gmx.net" target="_blank">Laurence.Finston@gmx.net</a><br>
<b>An:</b> "Paul A. VOJTA" <<a href="mailto:vojta@berkeley.edu" target="_blank">vojta@berkeley.edu</a>><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Aw: Re: [tex-k] Fw: Re: margin</div>
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<div>Thanks. Didn't think of that skip. In fact, I've never set it to 0pt and had even forgotten its existence although I use this technique all the time. It's never come up before, because I've never tried to put something exactly at the top margin.
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<div style="margin:0px 0px 10px"><b>Gesendet:</b> Sonntag, 04. September 2022 um 05:34 Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> "Paul A. VOJTA" <<a href="mailto:vojta@berkeley.edu" target="_blank">vojta@berkeley.edu</a>><br>
<b>An:</b> <a href="mailto:Laurence.Finston@gmx.net" target="_blank">Laurence.Finston@gmx.net</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> "<a href="http://tex-ktug.org" target="_blank">tex-ktug.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:tex-k@tug.org" target="_blank">tex-k@tug.org</a>><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [tex-k] Fw: Aw: Re: margin</div>
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<div>\hoffset-1in<br>
\voffset-1in<br>
\parindent0pt<br>
\topskip 0pt<br>
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a<br>
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\bye</div>
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<div class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Sep 3, 2022 at 8:25 PM <<a href="mailto:Laurence.Finston@gmx.net" target="_blank">Laurence.Finston@gmx.net</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div style="margin:0px 0px 10px"><b>Gesendet:</b> Sonntag, 04. September 2022 um 05:24 Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> <a href="mailto:Laurence.Finston@gmx.net" target="_blank">Laurence.Finston@gmx.net</a><br>
<b>An:</b> <a href="mailto:minoo_erhoo@protonmail.com" target="_blank">minoo_erhoo@protonmail.com</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Aw: Re: [tex-k] margin</div>
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<div>That's on the first page. I believe that that is the space from the top of the letter to the top of the box containing the letter. The same applies to the space between the left edge of the paper and the left edge of the serif at the bottom left of the letter.</div>
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<div>You can see the box in Computers and Typesetting, Vol. E, Computer Modern Typefaces, by Knuth. You can also see it if you run METAFONT on the sources in proof mode. I'll make an example when I get a chance. You can also use rules to show the boxes in TeX, but it's slightly inconvenient.
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<div style="margin:0px 0px 10px"><b>Gesendet:</b> Sonntag, 04. September 2022 um 04:38 Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> "Minoo Erhoo" <<a href="mailto:minoo_erhoo@protonmail.com" target="_blank">minoo_erhoo@protonmail.com</a>><br>
<b>An:</b> <a href="mailto:Laurence.Finston@gmx.net" target="_blank">Laurence.Finston@gmx.net</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: Aw: [tex-k] margin</div>
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<div style="font-family:Arial;font-size:14px"><i><b>Hi Laurence,</b></i></div>
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<div style="font-family:Arial;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><i><b>i saw your final output file.</b></i></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><i><b>but as you see, there is some space.</b></i></div>
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<div style="font-family:Arial;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><img alt="image.png" src="cid:183069cea64c204bfcc1"></div>
<div>------- Original Message -------<br>
On Sunday, September 4th, 2022 at 12:37 AM, <<a href="mailto:Laurence.Finston@gmx.net" target="_blank">Laurence.Finston@gmx.net</a>> wrote:<br>
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<div>I've attached the PDF for anyone who doesn't want to run the example.
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<div style="margin:0px 0px 10px"><b>Gesendet:</b> Samstag, 03. September 2022 um 22:05 Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> <a href="mailto:Laurence.Finston@gmx.net" target="_blank">Laurence.Finston@gmx.net</a><br>
<b>An:</b> <a href="mailto:minoo_erhoo@protonmail.com" target="_blank">minoo_erhoo@protonmail.com</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> "<a href="mailto:tex-k@tug.org" target="_blank">tex-k@tug.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:tex-k@tug.org" target="_blank">tex-k@tug.org</a>><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Aw: [tex-k] margin</div>
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<div>> I can't say for sure what the problem is without looking at the log file for your example</div>
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<div>I would have to use the appropriate form of tracing, of course. I actually don't think there would be any space at the beginning of the page, but I would check to be sure.</div>
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<div>The following code works, but with MetaPost, you do get the whole box, so it doesn't really help. On the second page of the TeX file, I show how to shift the letters using infinite glue. With this technique, you can put anything you want anywhere on the page. Here, I use a \vbox of \vsize and an \hbox of \hsize, but more often I use boxes of zero height or width, respectively, i.e., \vbox to 0pt and \hbox to 0pt, respectively. \vss and \hss, respectively, must be used in these boxes, as in the example below. You don't need an EPS file,</div>
<div>you can just put letters, words, paragraphs, math mode material, etc., into the box, e.g., \hbox to 0pt{\hskip-1cm A\hss}.</div>
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<div>%% <a href="http://ttemp.mp" target="_blank">ttemp.mp</a></div>
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<div>prologues := 3;<br>
outputtemplate := "%j%3c.eps";</div>
<div>beginfig(1);<br>
label(btex A etex, origin);<br>
endfig;</div>
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<div>beginfig(2);<br>
label(btex a etex, origin);<br>
endfig;</div>
<div>end;</div>
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<div>%% ttemp.tex</div>
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<div>\special{papersize=297mm, 210mm} %% DIN A4 <br>
\hsize=297mm<br>
\vsize=210mm<br>
\advance\voffset by -1in<br>
\advance\hoffset by -1in</div>
<div>\input epsf</div>
<div>\baselineskip=0pt<br>
\parindent=0pt<br>
\parskip=0pt</div>
<div>\def\epsfsize#1#2{#2}<br>
\leftline{\epsffile{ttemp001.eps}\epsffile{ttemp002.eps}}</div>
<div>\vfil\eject<br>
\vbox to \vsize{\vskip-.375pt<br>
\hbox to \hsize{\hskip-.5pt\epsffile{ttemp001.eps}\epsffile{ttemp002.eps}\hss}\vss}</div>
<div>\bye</div>
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<div>Run like this: mpost ttemp && tex ttemp && dvipdfmx ttemp.dvi
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<div style="margin:0px 0px 10px"><b>Gesendet:</b> Samstag, 03. September 2022 um 21:47 Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> <a href="mailto:Laurence.Finston@gmx.net" target="_blank">Laurence.Finston@gmx.net</a><br>
<b>An:</b> <a href="mailto:minoo_erhoo@protonmail.com" target="_blank">minoo_erhoo@protonmail.com</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Aw: [tex-k] margin</div>
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<div>I can't say for sure what the problem is without looking at the log file for your example, but this is an example that works (see below).</div>
<div>The 10 x 10pt rule shows that it works. The boxes containing the `a' and the `A' are taller than the letters themselves. I'd have to check to be sure</div>
<div>there's no other space in your example.</div>
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<div>If you want a letter to be right at the edge of the paper, you can use MetaPost to achieve this effect. If I have a moment, I can make an example.</div>
<div>At the exact edge wouldn't be useful for printing, but it would work in a dvi, ps or pdf viewer.</div>
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<div>\special{papersize=210mm, 297mm} %% DIN A4 Portrait<br>
\hsize=210mm</div>
<div>\vsize=297mm<br>
\advance\voffset by -1in<br>
\advance\hoffset by -1in<br>
\baselineskip=0pt<br>
\parindent=0pt<br>
\parskip=0pt<br>
\vrule height 10pt width 10pt A a<br>
\bye</div>
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<div>Laurence</div>
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<div style="margin:0px 0px 10px"><b>Gesendet:</b> Samstag, 03. September 2022 um 20:50 Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> "Minoo Erhoo" <<a href="mailto:minoo_erhoo@protonmail.com" target="_blank">minoo_erhoo@protonmail.com</a>><br>
<b>An:</b> "<a href="mailto:tex-k@tug.org" target="_blank">tex-k@tug.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:tex-k@tug.org" target="_blank">tex-k@tug.org</a>><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> [tex-k] margin</div>
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<div style="font-family:Arial;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><i><b>Hi,</b></i></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><i><b>i wrote this code to get a page without margins.</b></i></div>
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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;line-height:100%"><i><b><i><b>\hoffset-1in</b></i></b></i></p>
<i><b><i><b>\voffset-1in</b></i></b></i>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;line-height:100%"><i><b><i><b>\parindent0pt</b></i></b></i></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;line-height:100%"><i><b><i><b>a</b></i></b></i></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;line-height:100%"><i><b><i><b>\bye</b></i></b></i></p>
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<div style="font-family:Arial;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> </div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><i><b>but the first line (a) has vertical space before itself. in TeXBook told <u>1inch</u> is the margin space.</b></i></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> </div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><i><b>may a bug?</b></i></div>
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