[tex-hyphen] tl2011-pretest: loadhyph-sr-cyrl.tex still not activated by default?

Nikola Lečić nikola.lecic at anthesphoria.net
Wed Jun 1 17:39:59 CEST 2011

On Wed, 1 Jun 2011 16:05:02 +0200
Mojca Miklavec <mojca.miklavec.lists at gmail.com> wrote:
> 2011/6/1 Nikola Lečić wrote:
> > Mojca Miklavec wrote
> >  in <BANLkTinU+0+CMNJmjMLxrpM7Qiu7QX_6+Q at mail.gmail.com>
> >  on Wed, 1 Jun 2011 12:43:49 +0200:
> >
> >> Dear Nikola,
> >>
> >> Do you want to suggest that Serbian should load both latin+cyrillic
> >> patterns in XeTeX & LuaTeX and just latin patterns in pdfTeX? Or do
> >> you want to suggest that Cyrillic should be the default?
> >
> > Hi Mojca,
> >
> > I understood that conclusion was reached to load both patterns by
> > default in Unicode-aware engines. Anyway, IMHO loading both is the
> > most convenient for end users. These patterns are disjunct. I've
> > been using them in that way for many years.
> I agree that it makes sense to load both. So we should load both
> patterns for both "serbian" and "serbianc" for XeTeX? What about
> LuaTeX? Should we just create a single file called "sr" without any
> script and adapt scripts (tlpsrc) accordingly?

I can't tell you anything LuaTeX-related, but this is that I mean: this
document is currently not hyphenated at all if you compile it with
xelatex, despite correct polyglossia header etc. It should be
hyphenated out of the box, and I'd like not to change language if I
have to include some Serbian Latin quotation or bibliographical

\setmainfont{Old Standard}
Главница писма настала је из ране ћирилице, која је била дериват
глагољице и грчког уставног писма унцијале. За највероватније
састављаче ћирилице узимају се Климент Охридски или Константин
Преславски, али то питање до данас није коначно решено. Највећи
број слова потиче из грчког писма, док неки знакови представљају
мање или више упрошћене облике глагољских слова. Ћирилица је
добила име по млађем од два брата, словенска просветитеља, Ћирилу,
за кога се обично претпоставља да је саставио глагољицу.

> The main issue is that when you use
>     \usepackage[serbian]{babel}
> it will load serbian.ldf + hyphenation patterns marked "serbian" in
> language.dat (that may be changed). And if serbian.ldf loads latin
> labels, it makes very little sense to load cyrillic hyphenation
> patterns at the same time.

Agreed. See my answer to Arthur.

> > \usepackage{fontspec}
> > \usepackage[serbian,greek,english]{babel}
> > \def\cyrillicencoding{EU1}
> > \let\greektext\relax
> >
> > along with adding 'serbian xu-srhyphc.tex' to language.dat.
> But this will give you Latin "Table 1", "Figure 1", ...

But trivial to fix. I mean, in the early days of XeTeX, the possibility
to typeset Serbian Cyrillic Unicode text with a TeX engine was a
miracle. Everything else was less important.

> > I usually have texts with both scripts. It's more important that how
> > tables and figures are labeled (I always change these titles by hand
> > btw).
> Do you change them because:
> (a) there are two words with the same meaning  (we have "literatura"
> and "bibliografija" and I'm not sure which one sounds better) and you
> happen to prefer one of them,
> (b) because you want Cyrillic instead of Lation
> (c) or for some other reason?

The only reason why I ever used babel+xelatex was to load hyphenation
patterns. I rarely use the rest of infrastructure it offers; I much
prefer my home-grown commands.

(Btw, those titles were significantly improved in polyglossia last

> > To sum up: I strongly suggest loading both patterns for
> > XeTeX/LuaTeX.
> OK, that can be done and it makes sense.

Good. :-)

> But another request for you: can you make sure that there will be an
> easy way to typeset Serbian in Cyrillic script in pdfTeX and prepare a
> short document describing how to typeset Serbian:

There's no need to change anything related to pdfTeX.

> - in (pdf)LaTeX in Latin script (including Latin captions)
> - in (pdf)LaTeX in Cyrillic script (including Cyrillic captions)

See above.

> - in XeLaTeX in Latin script
> - in XeLaTeX in Cyrillic script

Please take a look at how it's done in  .sty file of texlive-sr
translation. That document demonstrates that Serbian is fully supported
in TeX Live through one of ideal combinations: xelatex + polysloggia +

> - in LuaLaTeX (optionally since polyglossia probably doesn't support
> LuaLaTeX yet)?

If polyglossia doesn't support lualatex, then I don't know what should
apply, except above mentioned trick with babel.

> This means that someone needs to either translate serbian.ldf or take
> an existing one and make sure that it finds a way into TeX Live.
> For example I have found this:
>    http://sourceforge.net/projects/serbianc/

Let's see that the author thinks.

Nikola Lečić = Никола Лечић
fingerprint : FEF3 66AF C90E EDC3 D878  7CDC 956D F4AB A377 1C9B
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