[OS X TeX] Feature request on TeXShop's "Experiment" mechanism

Herbert Schulz herbs at wideopenwest.com
Tue Jun 2 16:25:49 CEST 2015

> On Jun 2, 2015, at 9:07 AM, Markus Klyver <markusklyver at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Ross!
> My point was that you already have the text in the source file and that you should use that if you want to change or modify it. The PDF format was never meant to be handled by a text formatter or word processing program to begin with, either. The idea was to have a format for easy transfer of fixed-format electronic documents. You are complaining about a format never meant to be what you want it to be. Meaningless.
> In my humble opinion, I rather download the document with the source included, in a tarball. That way, I can both open the already compiled document and begin to mess with the text myself and compile it for my own needs. I did not mean to start a discussion and this does not really help the original mailer with his/her problem.
> I agree, though, with your views on Acrobat and as an user and promoter of copyleft software it's sad to see companies like Adobe basically ruining things because they can.
> Best Regards,
> Markus
> From: ross.moore at mq.edu.au
> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 11:21:50 +1000
> To: macosx-tex at email.esm.psu.edu
> Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] Feature request on TeXShop's "Experiment" mechanism
> Hi Markus,
> On 02/06/2015, at 8:55 AM, Markus Klyver wrote:
> Who copy pastes from a PDF anyway? PDF is used for one thing – reading. 
> That is 20th century thinking.
> In the 21st century, PDF is getting enriched with all kinds of extra
> structures that allow much greater flexibility --- provided the 
> PDF reader supports it. 
> Supporting Copy/Paste is just one such. Read Out Loud is important too.
> Exporting to XML, Rich Text, Word .doc, and more are other things;
> also Tooltips, a multitude of annotation types, Javascript actions, etc.
> You can get these features with Adobe products.
> Unfortunately Apple only sees PDF as a graphics format, 
> and its reader software has limitations because of this.
> If you want to copy, edit or modify the text, use the source TeX file.
> Sure. Include the TeX source as an attachment to your PDF.
> There is a package  attachfile2.sty  that does this.
> Unfortunately Preview, and presumably other Mac-based readers,
> do not support access to attachments within PDFs.
> Yet another reason to use Adobe Reader or Acrobat.
> Will is spot-on in pointing out where PDF techniques, most
> of which are described in published standards, are not being
> implemented correctly by Apple or in 3rd-party software.
> > From: will.adams at frycomm.com
> > Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2015 12:27:49 -0400
> > To: macosx-tex at email.esm.psu.edu
> > Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] Feature request on TeXShop's "Experiment" mechanism
> > 
> > On May 29, 2015, at 4:48 PM, Markus Klyver wrote:
> > 
> > > Why not just use the print feature of the OS itself (avalible with command ⌘ + p, and print)?
> > 
> > One reason not to use that feature is that it will in certain circumstances re-encode the font and make it impossible to copy-paste properly from the resultant .pdf
> > 
> > William
> > 
> > (who is getting really annoyed about having to use brain cells to memorise such minutiae and really wishes these things would just work properly and sensibly)


Here's one case that demonstrates the necessity of being able to copy and paste. You distribute the final pdf output to folks and they might want to grab a bibliographic reference or some text to place in another paper of theirs (with attribution, of course!). All they have is the final pdf and they know nothing about TeX.

There are tons of valid reasons to be able to do many of those things that Ross mentioned with pdf files alone.

Good Luck,

Herb Schulz
(herbs at wideopenwest dot com)

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