[lucida] Some LaTeX symbols

Josep M. Font jmfont at inicia.es
Fri Aug 18 01:27:51 CEST 2006

El 18/08/2006, a las 0:26, Axel E. Retif escribió:

> El 8/17/06 4:05 PM, "Karl Berry" <karl at freefriends.org> escribió:
>>> symbol \Box is typeset as a \square, and \Diamond is typeset as
>>> \lozenge. However, with cmr fonts or mathpazo, using "amssymb" plus
>>> "latexsym" packages, there is a difference! \square is larger than
>>> \Box, and \Diamond is not a \lonzenge but the real diamond of modal
>>> logicians
>> You mean the CM symbols are what you want and the Lucida symbols  
>> are not?
>> Can you send sources/pdfs of the difference?
>> I am not sure how to resolve this.  Suggestions welcome ...
> Now I see what happens! latexsym.sty uses the lasy font for  
> \Diamond, but as
> lucidabr.sty redefines \Diamond and makes it the same as \lozenge
> 372 \DeclareMathSymbol{\Diamond}{\mathord}{arrows}{8}
> ...
> 540 \DeclareMathSymbol{\lozenge}{\mathord}{arrows}{8}
> then \Diamond is taken from Lucida fonts, but if you call latexsym.sty
> *after* lucidabr.sty, everything works OK.
> In the following example comment out and uncomment \usepackage 
> {latexsym} and
> you'll see the change:
> \documentclass{article}
> \usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
> \usepackage{textcomp}
> \usepackage{lucidabr}
> \usepackage{amssymb}
> \usepackage{latexsym}
> \begin{document}
> \( \Box \quad \square \qquad \Diamond \quad \lozenge \)
> $\Box$
> $\square$
> $\Diamond$
> $\lozenge$
> \end{document}

I see! Thank you very much for clarifying this!

However, when using "lucidabr.sty", almost all AMS symbols would be  
taken from the Lucida fonts, but then if loading "amssymb.sty" (and  
"latexsym.sty") after it I understand we return totally to the AMS  
fonts and LaTeX fonts. Perhaps this doesn't make a big difference, I  
don't know about other symbols, but I suppose the Lucida ones are  
designed to match well with the text fonts. (It seems to me that the  
Lucida symbols have slightly thicker lines; or is it an optical  

I hope there is no harm in doing this:

% for \square:
% for \Diamond:


\( \Box\ \square\ \Diamond\ \lozenge \)


that is, just redefining \square and \Diamond to obtain the LaTeX and  
AMS versions. Is there no "real" diamond in the Lucida fonts ? If  
there is, then it is a matter of just changing the definition of  
\Diamond in "lucidabr.sty"; the case of \square vs. \Box is not so  
different... Here is a small pdf file with the result of my proposal:
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[Karl, I'm afraid it is very difficult these days to have some  
control over the blacklisting services... It has happened to me often  
with dynamic IP addresses...]

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