[luatex] luatex Digest, Vol 34, Issue 8
Mohamed Bana
mohamed at bana.org.uk
Sat Oct 8 19:45:03 CEST 2011
Would someone please un-subscribe. I've tried endlessly but it doesn't seem
to work.
Thank you.
—Mohamed
On 8 October 2011 18:42, <luatex-request at tug.org> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: [tex-live] Ignored italic correction with lua(la)tex
> format (Philipp Stephani)
> 2. Re: [tex-live] Ignored italic correction with lua(la)tex
> format (Khaled Hosny)
> 3. Re: [tex-live] Ignored italic correction with lua(la)tex
> format (Khaled Hosny)
> 4. Re: [tex-live] Ignored italic correction with lua(la)tex
> format (Philipp Stephani)
> 5. Re: [tex-live] Ignored italic correction with lua(la)tex
> format (Khaled Hosny)
> 6. Re: [tex-live] Ignored italic correction with lua(la)tex
> format (Ulrike Fischer)
> 7. ligatures with luaotfload (Javier M?gica de Rivera)
> 8. Re: ligatures with luaotfload (Khaled Hosny)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2011 12:15:48 +0200
> From: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2 at googlemail.com>
> To: Taco Hoekwater <taco at elvenkind.com>
> Cc: TeX Live mailing list <tex-live at tug.org>, "General discussion of
> LuaTeX." <luatex at tug.org>
> Subject: Re: [luatex] [tex-live] Ignored italic correction with
> lua(la)tex format
> Message-ID:
> <CAArVCkTpVCEafLUyikOnHRkj=XqypvucS-9qZ65qitUGbOBFyA at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> 2011/10/8 Taco Hoekwater <taco at elvenkind.com>:
> > On 10/08/2011 09:18 AM, Philipp Stephani wrote:
> >>
> >>> Cambria has minimal italic correction so the
> >>> difference is not so visible and its sub/superscripts are handled with
> >>> math kerning so the difference is even more invisible. XITS renders
> fine
> >>> in Word.
> >>
> >> For Cambria, the test looks better without italic correction. The
> >> OpenType math document allows math italic correction to be applied
> >> after a run of italic characters, but does not specify how to tell
> >> italic and upright characters apart.
> >
> > I believe the fix here should be for luatex not to
> > apply italic corrections in math mode at all, so:
> >
> > ? if (is_new_mathfont(cur_f)) {
> > ? ? ? *delta = 0; ? ? /* no italic correction ?*/
> > ? }
>
> This would be allowed according to the OpenType specification and
> remove the category code issues, but in our case XITS actually should
> have italic correction, otherwise the characters would bump into each
> other even in ConTeXt. I think we should find a better solution.
> Maybe you can implement a set (hash table or whatever) of characters
> that should be treated as italic. Users should be able to set this set
> using tex.set_italic_characters({123, 456}) or similar.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2011 15:30:04 +0200
> From: Khaled Hosny <khaledhosny at eglug.org>
> To: Taco Hoekwater <taco at elvenkind.com>
> Cc: TeX Live mailing list <tex-live at tug.org>, "General discussion of
> LuaTeX." <luatex at tug.org>
> Subject: Re: [luatex] [tex-live] Ignored italic correction with
> lua(la)tex format
> Message-ID: <20111008133004.GA16449 at khaled-laptop>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> On Sat, Oct 08, 2011 at 10:39:54AM +0200, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> > On 10/08/2011 09:18 AM, Philipp Stephani wrote:
> > >
> > >>Cambria has minimal italic correction so the
> > >>difference is not so visible and its sub/superscripts are handled with
> > >>math kerning so the difference is even more invisible. XITS renders
> fine
> > >>in Word.
> > >
> > >For Cambria, the test looks better without italic correction. The
> > >OpenType math document allows math italic correction to be applied
> > >after a run of italic characters, but does not specify how to tell
> > >italic and upright characters apart.
> >
> > I believe the fix here should be for luatex not to
> > apply italic corrections in math mode at all, so:
> >
> > if (is_new_mathfont(cur_f)) {
> > *delta = 0; /* no italic correction */
> > }
>
> Not every font can do with no italic correction at all, Cambria can go
> away with that but more slanted designs can't.
>
> Regards,
> Khaled
>
> --
> Khaled Hosny
> Egyptian
> Arab
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2011 15:46:29 +0200
> From: Khaled Hosny <khaledhosny at eglug.org>
> To: "General discussion of LuaTeX." <luatex at tug.org>
> Cc: tex-live at tug.org
> Subject: Re: [luatex] [tex-live] Ignored italic correction with
> lua(la)tex format
> Message-ID: <20111008134629.GC16449 at khaled-laptop>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> On Sat, Oct 08, 2011 at 09:36:53AM +0200, Philipp Stephani wrote:
> > 2011/10/8 Karl Berry <karl at freefriends.org>:
> > > The catcode
> > > assignments just have to be taken out of lua(la)tex format files
> >
> > Please don't do this. The catcode assignments are totally correct, and
> > it is LuaTeX which is IMHO buggy.
>
> So we have to live with broken rendering (until next year texlive at
> least) for some dubious benefit of being able to \def\?????????????
>
> Regards,
> Khaled
>
> --
> Khaled Hosny
> Egyptian
> Arab
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2011 15:52:50 +0200
> From: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2 at googlemail.com>
> To: "General discussion of LuaTeX." <luatex at tug.org>
> Cc: tex-live at tug.org
> Subject: Re: [luatex] [tex-live] Ignored italic correction with
> lua(la)tex format
> Message-ID:
> <CAArVCkRPqfA16PmV3TtWwfWAgyYWz+Oj+SEjPKV4c_59e=eCEA at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> 2011/10/8 Khaled Hosny <khaledhosny at eglug.org>:
> > On Sat, Oct 08, 2011 at 09:36:53AM +0200, Philipp Stephani wrote:
> >> 2011/10/8 Karl Berry <karl at freefriends.org>:
> >> > The catcode
> >> > assignments just have to be taken out of lua(la)tex format files
> >>
> >> Please don't do this. The catcode assignments are totally correct, and
> >> it is LuaTeX which is IMHO buggy.
> >
> > So we have to live with broken rendering (until next year texlive at
> > least) for some dubious benefit of being able to \def\?????????????
>
> LuaTeX is still beta, nobody should expect flawlessness. Once a better
> italic correction algorithm is found, we can upload a new version of
> LuaTeX to TLcontrib.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2011 16:09:18 +0200
> From: Khaled Hosny <khaledhosny at eglug.org>
> To: "General discussion of LuaTeX." <luatex at tug.org>
> Cc: tex-live at tug.org
> Subject: Re: [luatex] [tex-live] Ignored italic correction with
> lua(la)tex format
> Message-ID: <20111008140918.GA16747 at khaled-laptop>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> On Sat, Oct 08, 2011 at 03:52:50PM +0200, Philipp Stephani wrote:
> > 2011/10/8 Khaled Hosny <khaledhosny at eglug.org>:
> > > On Sat, Oct 08, 2011 at 09:36:53AM +0200, Philipp Stephani wrote:
> > >> 2011/10/8 Karl Berry <karl at freefriends.org>:
> > >> > The catcode
> > >> > assignments just have to be taken out of lua(la)tex format files
> > >>
> > >> Please don't do this. The catcode assignments are totally correct, and
> > >> it is LuaTeX which is IMHO buggy.
> > >
> > > So we have to live with broken rendering (until next year texlive at
> > > least) for some dubious benefit of being able to \def\?????????????
> >
> > LuaTeX is still beta, nobody should expect flawlessness. Once a better
> > italic correction algorithm is found, we can upload a new version of
> > LuaTeX to TLcontrib.
>
> No, I'm not convinced that we have to keep a feature that no one needs
> just to break a feature that many need. If ConTeXt is doing fine without
> the cactcode assignment, I think LaTeX can survive it too.
>
> Regards,
> Khaled
>
> --
> Khaled Hosny
> Egyptian
> Arab
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2011 18:21:46 +0200
> From: Ulrike Fischer <luatex at nililand.de>
> To: luatex at tug.org
> Cc: tex-live at tug.org
> Subject: Re: [luatex] [tex-live] Ignored italic correction with
> lua(la)tex format
> Message-ID: <1u1to97usqlv2$.dlg at nililand.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Am Sat, 8 Oct 2011 15:46:29 +0200 schrieb Khaled Hosny:
>
> >>> The catcode
> >>> assignments just have to be taken out of lua(la)tex format files
>
> >> Please don't do this. The catcode assignments are totally correct, and
> >> it is LuaTeX which is IMHO buggy.
>
> > So we have to live with broken rendering (until next year texlive at
> > least) for some dubious benefit of being able to \def\?????????????
>
> I'm obviously not able to follow. Of which letters are you speaking?
> My version of luatex-unicode-letters.tex doesn't contain a \catcode
> setting in line 18 (there is the \begingroup-command).
>
> Also why it is necessary to change the formats? Why can't the
> problematic catcodes be changed in the document?
>
>
> --
> Ulrike Fischer
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2011 18:55:01 +0200
> From: Javier M?gica de Rivera <javieraritz.ribadeo at gmail.com>
> To: luatex at tug.org
> Subject: [luatex] ligatures with luaotfload
> Message-ID:
> <CABCShTht996HKnF8DkM+uzBHm+XNwtAwN5f4--cexzn_04Dfnw at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I have used the luaotfload package for the first time, and worte the
> following code in order to do so:
>
> %def\otffont#1=#2 at{\font#1={#2: mode=base;tlig;trep} at}
> \def\otffont#1=#2 at{\font#1={#2: mode=node;tlig;trep} at}
>
> \otffont\tenrm=LMRoman10-Regular at 10pt
>
> The font appears to be right at first sight but looking closer I see
> that kerning and ligatures are missing. How can that be solved?
>
> Another issue is the tlig and trep substitutions. If I write
> ``hello'', I get the right output if I use the node mode, but if I use
> the base mode I have to remove the trep option in order to get it
> right, otherwise what I get is two consecutive single-left-quotes. It
> seems that the package in base mode first applies the option trep,
> replacing the each ` with a quote, and then tlig is useless since the
> couple `` of original input characters is already gone. Since I
> perceived no differences between base and node modes I simply switched
> to node mode.
>
> Regards,
> Javier A. M?gica
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2011 19:42:29 +0200
> From: Khaled Hosny <khaledhosny at eglug.org>
> To: "General discussion of LuaTeX." <luatex at tug.org>
> Subject: Re: [luatex] ligatures with luaotfload
> Message-ID: <20111008174229.GC19263 at khaled-laptop>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> On Sat, Oct 08, 2011 at 06:55:01PM +0200, Javier M?gica de Rivera wrote:
> > I have used the luaotfload package for the first time, and worte the
> > following code in order to do so:
> >
> > %def\otffont#1=#2 at{\font#1={#2: mode=base;tlig;trep} at}
> > \def\otffont#1=#2 at{\font#1={#2: mode=node;tlig;trep} at}
> >
> > \otffont\tenrm=LMRoman10-Regular at 10pt
> >
> > The font appears to be right at first sight but looking closer I see
> > that kerning and ligatures are missing. How can that be solved?
>
> I don't know what version of luaotfload you are using, but in some old
> versions you had to explicitly enable each feature you want.
>
> > Another issue is the tlig and trep substitutions. If I write
> > ``hello'', I get the right output if I use the node mode, but if I use
> > the base mode I have to remove the trep option in order to get it
> > right, otherwise what I get is two consecutive single-left-quotes. It
> > seems that the package in base mode first applies the option trep,
> > replacing the each ` with a quote, and then tlig is useless since the
> > couple `` of original input characters is already gone. Since I
> > perceived no differences between base and node modes I simply switched
> > to node mode.
>
> tlig and trep are essentially broken by design, they are removed
> altogether from the unstable branch, I'm not sure if there will ever be
> a replacement in luaotfload so you would better find a different way to
> input typographic quotes.
>
> Regards,
> Khaled
>
> --
> Khaled Hosny
> Egyptian
> Arab
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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>
> End of luatex Digest, Vol 34, Issue 8
> *************************************
>
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