[latexrefman-discuss] \newenvironment (non starred) vs \newenvironment* (starred)

[Vincent Belaïche]

> OT: Vincent, my french is more than a bit rusty. Would you mind reading
> a bit in the french version? Is it littered with bad advice as well?
> https://fr.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX

I won't be able to do that soon :-( ... Anyway, which wikibook is to
take as a "reference", is it the German version or the English version ?

VBR,
    Vincent

2015-11-10 14:45 GMT+01:00 Johannes Böttcher <johannesbottcher at domain.hidom>:
> I use latex2e.pdf on a regular basis. I consider myself a user who knows the
> basics and tiny bit more. I know l2tabu. I know eqnarray is bad and why.
>
> Documenting the starred versions and how they differ from the normal version
> is important. Giving advice on which one to choose for which occasion
> shouldn't be around. Advice not to overdo it with rules in tables shouldn't
> be here as well.
>
> I think those advice are better suited for an introduction like lshort.
>
>
> On the other hand, it doesn't matter what advice is put in this manual that
> much. Any advice could be the best in the world ...
>
> I attended a introduction to LaTeX yesterday, for university students. The
> presenter said you need to load package `graphicx' to use the `figure'
> environment. I talked to him and digged around (thanks to cgnieder) and ...
> This was actually to be found in the german version of the LaTeX-wikibook.
> Anybody starting and not knowing about eqnarray etc. will find the wikibook
> first (i know i did) and i think that improving that instance by giving the
> good advice there, and removing the junk is more helpful for users. This
> isn't limited to the german or english version.
>
> OT: Vincent, my french is more than a bit rusty. Would you mind reading a
> bit in the french version? Is it littered with bad advice as well?
> https://fr.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX
>
>
> In summary, keeping the straight facts in the manual we are talking about,
> and get the beginners advice where it belongs.
>
>
> My opinion of course.
>
>
>
>
> On 11/10/2015 11:43 AM, Vincent Belaïche wrote:
>>>
>>> Shouldn't taboos get to l2tabu instead of a reference manual?
>>
>>
>> Making a comprehensive list of all taboos in a reference manual is just
>> out-of-scope. However, documenting some feature (e.g. starred versions
>> of \newcommand, or eqnarry) and not giving _at the same occasion_ any
>> information about how it is preferrable or not to use this feature, and
>> why, is simply too bad because this means that the reader will get this
>> information too late.
>>
>> VBR,
>>      Vincent
>>
>> 2015-11-10 10:47 GMT+01:00 Johannes Böttcher <johannesbottcher at domain.hidl.com>:
>>>
>>> Shouldn't taboos get to l2tabu instead of a reference manual?
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/10/2015 10:00 AM, Vincent Belaïche wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    encouraging the starred form, arguments of environments should not
>>>>>>    contain multiple paragraphs.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Some environments should not, others should.  I don't see any reason to
>>>>> either encourage or discourage either form in a reference manual.  It
>>>>> should describe the facts of what's available.  -k
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, one of the factual facts is that when you don't need paragraphs in
>>>> the argument, then telling it to LaTeX helps you locating easier and
>>>> quicker any error. TeX will give out a more explicit error message
>>>> because the error is detected earlier in the compilation. This is
>>>> exactly what Manuel wrote here:
>>>>
>>>> https://elzevir.fr/imj/latex/tips.html#ncstared
>>>>
>>>> So this is a judgement, but it is based on facts.
>>>>
>>>> Also discouraging eqnarray is another judgement:
>>>>
>>>> https://elzevir.fr/imj/latex/tips.html#eqnarray
>>>>
>>>> When there are facts why one should do this way or not this way,
>>>> shouldn't we give these facts, that is the purpose of LaTeX tabus...
>>>>
>>>> http://www.ctan.org/pkg/l2tabu-english
>>>>
>>>> For instance, should we update \sloppy node to indicate that some people
>>>> consider it a LaTeX taboo ?
>>>>
>>>>     Vincent.
>>>>
>>>> 2015-11-07 0:30 GMT+01:00 Karl Berry <karl at domain.hid>:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>       encouraging the starred form, arguments of environments should
>>>>> not
>>>>>       contain multiple paragraphs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some environments should not, others should.  I don't see any reason to
>>>>> either encourage or discourage either form in a reference manual.  It
>>>>> should describe the facts of what's available.  -k
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>