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Hi Michal, Jason and the LaTeX team.<br class="">
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 28 Jun 2019, at 12:02 am, Michal Hoftich <<a href="mailto:michal.h21@gmail.com" class="">michal.h21@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="">> I doubt it, perhaps some parts can be reused but pdf has really rather<br class="">
> special requirements. Beside this tex4ht is imho quite stable, mature and<br class="">
> powerful.<br class="">
<br class="">
The problem with the the PDF syntax is that it seems to be quite<br class="">
low-level, basically HTML, so it captures lot less information than<br class="">
what tex4ht already does and it wouldn't work for other output formats<br class="">
than HTML (ODT, DocBook,..).<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>Actually, I do not agree with this statement.</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>PDF provides mechanisms for: </div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div> 1. using any tag-name that the PDF-writer wishes to use,</div>
<div> provided it is mapped to a standard PDF type, which could be “NonStruct”.</div>
<div> (This is the purpose of /RoleMap .)</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div> 2. associating a particular (or multiple) output-format(s) with any instance</div>
<div> of a structural tag; (This is the purpose of /ClassMap .)</div>
<div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<div> 3. associating attributes to such instances, that are intended to be included</div>
<div> upon export into a document for each output format. </div>
<div> ( one assigns a /C dictionary, with a sub-dictionaries for the elements</div>
<div> of each desired Class ) </div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>Whether software yet exists to output from PDF into formats such as ODT and DocBook </div>
<div>is a moot point. But certainly the possibility exists for this to happen.</div>
<div>And documents can be created now, that should export successfully when such software</div>
<div>is developed in future.</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>These mechanisms are used by Adobe’s Acrobat upon export into XML, HTML, RTF, etc.</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>In short, there are already means to capture as much information as you desire.</div>
<div>It is simply a matter of knowing how to do it, and automating it as appropriate.</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
If there was a higher level structural tagging standard provided by<br class="">
the LaTeX kernel and maintained packages, I think we could reuse that<br class="">
information in tex4ht. For example something like dpub-aria:<br class="">
<a href="https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/X5B3C1WLjwsqVrZVHGb01g?domain=w3c.github.io" class="">https://w3c.github.io/dpub-aria/#doc-chapter</a>.<br class="">
It shouldn't be hard to map such higher level information to the PDF<br class="">
tagging, HTML 5, ODT and other formats.<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>I attach some pictures here, to show the effect of the RoleMap,</div>
<div>from a document that I’m currently working on.</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>The first image uses custom tags as <lower-case-name> , each with a title that indicate </div>
<div>the purpose of its child content.</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div><img apple-inline="yes" id="E45E3BA1-FDD6-4BF1-B8F6-E5BC021201D8" width="534" height="480" src="cid:500E7BAA-AB7A-46A8-A476-409F6880241B@telstra.com.au" class=""></div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>The 2nd image shows how this structure is Role-Mapped to standard PDF tag types,</div>
<div>to satisfy the PDF/UA-1 standard.</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div><img apple-inline="yes" id="636E7651-4B28-4258-806C-AD8210647C90" width="544" height="480" src="cid:24C46D04-0A21-47DA-B9B1-1FD3CE8DCE10@telstra.com.au" class=""></div>
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
Best regards,<br class="">
Michal<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
</div>
<div>Jason, — another Aussie, originally from Melbourne, same as me !</div>
<div> Great to meet you.</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>Earlier you said:</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">I can also test the output with screen readers and PDF reading tools on each<br class="">
of those operating systems. Adobe Reader under Windows and Mac OS supports<br class="">
tagged PDF; work was done to support it in Evince under Linux/GNOME, but I<br class="">
don't know how far that has progressed; Preview under Mac OS is said to have<br class="">
support as well. (Unfortunately, most of the PDF files I receive aren't<br class="">
tagged, so I have performed very little testing across operating systems.)<br class="">
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>I have a quite large set of Tagged PDF documents, produced using LaTeX and my own macros,</div>
<div>at my site: <a href="http://web.science.mq.edu.au/~ross/TaggedPDF/" class="">
http://web.science.mq.edu.au/~ross/TaggedPDF/</a></div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I’m particularly interested in receiving feedback about the ones having a fair amount of </div>
<div class="">mathematical/scientific content;</div>
<div class="">e.g. in the sub-sections: </div>
<div class=""> Mathematics Tutorial exercises</div>
<div class=""> ACM journal styles</div>
<div class=""> Annals of Mathematics, example document</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">from the point-of-view of Accessibility, and documents valid for PDF/UA.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Please read these using Assistive Technology, and tell me what works well</div>
<div class="">and/or what does not. In such feedback please say what AT was being used;</div>
<div class="">JAWS, NVDA or both, other screen-reading software, and/or Braille keyboard.</div>
<div class="">Use different combinations with the same document, so that comparisons</div>
<div class="">can be established and documented.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Also, I’m intrigued by your statement that "Preview under Mac OS” has support </div>
<div class="">for Tagged PDF. I do all my work on a MacBook, and have never seen that.</div>
<div class="">Can you provide a link to some descriptive document?</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Apple’s VoiceOver does a really bad job with my PDFs, even though they</div>
<div class="">are fully validating for the PDF/A and PDF/UA standards. </div>
<div class="">Apple has previously been rather poor at supporting things in the PDF standards </div>
<div class="">that they do not use in their own software.</div>
<div class="">It would be really great if that attitude is changing.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">All the best.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>Ross</div>
<br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
Dr Ross Moore<br class="">
Department of Mathematics and Statistics
<div class="">12 Wally’s Walk, Level 7, Room 734<br class="">
Macquarie University, NSW 2109, Australia<br class="">
T: +61 2 9850 8955 | F: +61 2 9850 8114<br class="">
M:+61 407 288 255 | E: <a href="mailto:ross.moore@mq.edu.au" class="">ross.moore@mq.edu.au</a><br class="">
<a href="http://www.maths.mq.edu.au" class="">http://www.maths.mq.edu.au</a><span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: normal;"><a href="http://mq.edu.au/" target="_blank" style="font-size: 12px; line-height: normal;" class=""><span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 105, 217); color: rgb(0, 105, 217); font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; orphans: 2; widows: 2;">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 105, 217); color: rgb(0, 105, 217); font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><span><span><span><span><img apple-inline="yes" id="164A834E-D3BD-4809-A02C-AAA111FF56CF" src="cid:image001.png@01D030BE.D37A46F0" class=""></span><br style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">CRICOS
Provider Number 00002J. Think before you</span><span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">print. </span><br style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Please
consider the environment before printing this</span><span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">email.</span><br style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none;" class="">
<br style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">This
message is intended for the addressee named</span><span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">and
may </span><br style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">contain
confidential information. If you are not the</span><span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">intended </span><br style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">recipient,
please delete it and notify the sender. Views</span><span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">expressed </span><br style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">in
this message are those of the individual sender, and</span><span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">are
not </span><br style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">necessarily
the views of Macquarie University.</span> </span></span></span></span></span></a></span></div>
<a href="http://mq.edu.au/" target="_blank" style="font-size: 12px; line-height: normal;" class=""></a></div>
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