<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META name=GENERATOR content="MSHTML 8.00.6001.18975">
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space"
bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS">Oh dear - I don't use these packages at all
so won't be of much help. Do you have to create a TOC entry in the body of
your text, with a command such as \toc{<FONT
face="Times New Roman">L'incertitude</FONT>}? If so, you might get away
with \toc{<FONT face="Times New Roman">L\noexpand 'incertitude</FONT>}.
But this will mess things up if </FONT><FONT
face="Times New Roman">L'incertitude has also to be typeset in the main text at
this point - and it may not work anyway.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS">If you get a UTF file of your table of
contents, you could simply do a global search-and-replace, altering </FONT><FONT
face="Times New Roman">"2019 to the apostrophe - but if all that is done in the
background and the package produces a finalized table of contents (as a PDF)
then you have no chance to intervene.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS">Sorry if my suggestions have got you into
difficulties. You could always revert to what you were doing before
and ask the supporters of the various packages you use to help you out.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS">John</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=pier.morel@gmail.com href="mailto:pier.morel@gmail.com">Pierre
Morel</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=xetex@tug.org
href="mailto:xetex@tug.org">Unicode-based TeX for Mac OS X and other
platforms</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> 01 November 2010 09:46</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [XeTeX] Several
apostrophe-related problems (kerning, mapping)</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS"></FONT><FONT
face="Arial Unicode MS"></FONT><FONT
face="Arial Unicode MS"></FONT><BR></DIV>Ouch, I thought everything was
solved... but now there is a problem in the PDF TOC generated by hyperref.
<DIV>Basically, instead of having</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
class=Apple-tab-span></SPAN>L'incertitude</DIV>
<DIV>I get:</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
class=Apple-tab-span></SPAN>L"2019incertitude</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>...not very nice.</DIV>
<DIV>Hyperref produces some warnings:</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 10px Monaco">Package hyperref Warning: Token
not allowed in a PDF string (Unicode):</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 10px Monaco">(hyperref)
\kern 0.00003pt</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 10px Monaco">(hyperref)
removed on input line 308.</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; FONT: 10px Monaco"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; FONT: 10px Monaco"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 10px Monaco">Package hyperref Warning: Token
not allowed in a PDF string (Unicode):</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 10px Monaco">(hyperref)
removing `\hbox' on input line 308.</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; FONT: 10px Monaco"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; FONT: 10px Monaco"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 10px Monaco">Package hyperref Warning: Token
not allowed in a PDF string (Unicode):</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 10px Monaco">(hyperref)
removing `\char' on input line 308.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Now that everything else works, how to prevent this hyperref problem
?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Thanks</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Pierre</DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>Le 31 oct. 2010 à 23:19, John Was a écrit :</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>Hello Pierre<BR><BR>I'm sorry to say that I can't help with the
marginal kerning - I've never investigated that facility in TeX since the
output I get without it has always seemed OK (to my eye) in the work I do.
What seems to be happening is that the TeX mapping is being ignored by
the package that deals with the marginal kerning, so when in the \active
hacks that I sent you the true apostrophe is being replaced by the upright
', the package is giving you the latter instead of switching it to the
correct typographical sort as your TeX mapping specifies. I'm sure
those maintaining the package will be able to come up with some proper
solution, but in the meantime you could try bypassing the TeX mapping for
apostrophes and closing quotation marks by using the correct Unicode
characters (as I think you have already done with the single quotation
mark/apostrophe).<BR><BR>In spite of my misgivings about using an active
character in the definition of that very same character, the following does
seem to work without causing processing
errors:<BR><BR>\catcode"2019=\active<BR>\def’{\leavevmode \kern 1sp
\hbox{\char"2019}}<BR>\catcode"201D=\active<BR>\def”{\leavevmode \kern 1sp
\hbox{\char"201D}}<BR><BR>Try that instead of my previous four lines of code
and see what happens!<BR><BR><BR><BR>John<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>----- Original
Message ----- From: "Pierre Morel" <<A
href="mailto:pier.morel@gmail.com">pier.morel@gmail.com</A>><BR>To:
"Unicode-based TeX for Mac OS X and other platforms" <<A
href="mailto:xetex@tug.org">xetex@tug.org</A>><BR>Sent: 31 October 2010
18:14<BR>Subject: Re: [XeTeX] Several apostrophe-related problems (kerning,
mapping)<BR><BR><BR>Thank you John, your hack indeed solves the problem when
U+0027 apostrophes are replaced with U+2019 apostrophes (I did not try to
make U+0027 active) and when the margin kering is not
activated.<BR><BR>However, replacing U+0027 with U+2019 apostrophes showed
that the margin-kerning bug is not due to the tex-text mapping : even when
the apostrophes are U+2019 in the source file, they are replaced by U+0027
apostrophes in the PDF !! And this only for the font for which margin
kerning is activated.<BR><BR>Any ideas on this last problem ?<BR><BR><BR>Le
31 oct. 2010 à 16:32, John Was a écrit :<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Hello<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">I can't help with the marginal kering (which I
don't use), but here is what I do in a font that also had overtight
kerning associated with apostrophes:<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">\catcode"2019=\active<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">\def’{\leavevmode \kern 1sp
\hbox{'}}<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">\catcode"201D=\active<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">\def”{\leavevmode \kern 1sp
\hbox{''}}<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Note that the characters in the \hboxes are the
ordinary straight apostrophe (since I also use TeX mapping in my font
calls.)<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">As it stands, this would involve you actually
using the correct Unicode characters 2019 and 201D for closing single and
double apostrophes in your document, in spite of your tex-mapping - and I
guess you could achieve this by global search-and-replace in your file.
But you may be able to do much the same thing by making 0027
active instead (I haven't tried that - I can see a potential danger of a
loop if you are using 0027 to define itself).<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">I'm sure there are more elegant solutions - and I
use plain TeX so there may be LaTeX issues that I don't know
about.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">(Of course, if my request for custom kerning could
be met, we would all be able to refine the kerning of any font at will.
Unfortunately, someone in another thread explained that that is very
difficult in XeTeX because of the way it looks up font information (LuaTeX
can do it because it has another method of accessing the font's tables).
I was rather hoping that someone would see that as an opportunity to
show off hrs computing prowess by performing the miracle - but this hasn't
happened yet.)<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">John<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">----- Original Message ----- From: "Pierre Morel"
<<A
href="mailto:pier.morel@gmail.com">pier.morel@gmail.com</A>><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">To: "Unicode-based TeX for Mac OS X and other
platforms" <<A
href="mailto:xetex@tug.org">xetex@tug.org</A>><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Sent: 31 October 2010 15:02<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Subject: [XeTeX] Several apostrophe-related
problems (kerning, mapping)<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Hello,<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">My thesis is finished soon, but I have an annoying
apostrophe problem.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">In French we have a lot of apostrophes uses like
this : L'œil, l'incertitude, etc.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">In theory, these apostrophes should be the unicode
character U+2019 (right single quotation mark) instead of a straight
apostrophe (U+0027). This replacement is automatically made by this
command : \defaultfontfeatures{Mapping=tex-text}<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">First there is a problem with the kerning of this
U+2019 character, it is possibly a bug in the font I'm using (Adobe Caslon
Pro), but I'd like to solve it anyway.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Here is an example (The word L'œil, on the top
right) :<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><A
href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1205127/Images/xetex.jpg">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1205127/Images/xetex.jpg</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">The apostrophe is completely kerned above the "œ"
(the same problem is present for any small character), which thus touches
the "L".<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">So my first question is: is there a way to
override the default kerning of this U+2019 character so that it behaves
in a more correct way (with a slight space between the apostrophe and the
next letter) ?<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Now there is a second problem (which solved the
first one but in a bad way).<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">When activating margin kerning, xetex behaves as
if the line \defaultfontfeatures{Mapping=tex-text} was not present :
U+0027 apostrophes stay straight (which curiously solves the kerning
problem, see the example on the top left of the image), and `` and '' are
not converted appropriately (more annoying).<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Here is what I use for the margin kerning (when I
comment these line, the mapping problem is corrected) :<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">\newcount\countA<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">\ifx\XeTeXprotrudechars\undefined<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> \pdfprotrudechars=2<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">\else<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> \let\pdftexversion=\countA<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> \pdftexversion = 140<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> \XeTeXprotrudechars=2%\fi<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">\input protcode-native<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">\font\f="Adobe Caslon Pro" at 11pt
\f<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">\setprotcode\f<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE
type="cite"> \pretolerance=-1<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE
type="cite"> \tolerance=9999<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE
type="cite"> \emergencystretch=2em<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">With the file protcode-native file
being<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">\def\setprotcode#1{<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> \rpcode#1 U"0021
55<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> \rpcode#1 U"002C
194<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> \rpcode#1 U"002D
233<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> \rpcode#1 U"002E
194<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> \rpcode#1 U"003B
138<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> \rpcode#1 U"003A
138<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> \rpcode#1 U"003F
94<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> \lpcode#1 U"2018
194<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> \rpcode#1 U"2019
194<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> \rpcode#1 U"0027
194<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> \lpcode#1 U"201C
250<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> \rpcode#1 U"201D
250<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> \rpcode#1 U"2013
150<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> \rpcode#1 U"2014
200<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">}<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">So, in short, I want to use margin kerning while
maintaining the tex-text mapping AND having a correct kerning with the
U+2019 apostrophe.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">PS: (this last problem also appears on my sans
serif font (Myriad pro), an example is visible in the linked
image.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Thank you,<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Pierre<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE
type="cite">--------------------------------------------------<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Subscriptions, Archive, and List information,
etc.:<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><A
href="http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex">http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE
type="cite">--------------------------------------------------<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Subscriptions, Archive, and List information,
etc.:<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><A
href="http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex">http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR><BR>--------------------------------------------------<BR>Subscriptions,
Archive, and List information, etc.:<BR><A
href="http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex">http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex</A>
<BR><BR><BR>--------------------------------------------------<BR>Subscriptions,
Archive, and List information, etc.:<BR><A
href="http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex">http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex</A><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P><BR><BR>--------------------------------------------------<BR>Subscriptions,
Archive, and List information, etc.:<BR>
http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>