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<DIV><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS">I wouldn't know - I don't move in circles
where one could even contemplate shelling out that much for such an
item.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS">John</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=wvanrooijen@yahoo.com href="mailto:wvanrooijen@yahoo.com">Wilfred van
Rooijen</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=xetex@tug.org
href="mailto:xetex@tug.org">Unicode-based TeX for Mac OS X and other
platforms</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 04, 2010 1:01 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [XeTeX] Em-dash</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
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<TD vAlign=top>But is this keyboard so expensive because of the
technology or because of the "design" (which, by the way, I find to be
fairly conservative :-)) )<BR><BR>Wilfred<BR><BR>--- On <B>Tue,
4/5/10, John Was <I><<A
href="mailto:john.was@ntlworld.com">john.was@ntlworld.com</A>></I></B>
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From:
John Was <<A
href="mailto:john.was@ntlworld.com">john.was@ntlworld.com</A>><BR>Subject:
Re: [XeTeX] Em-dash<BR>To: "Unicode-based TeX for Mac OS X and other
platforms" <xetex@tug.org><BR>Date: Tuesday, 4 May, 2010, 5:23
PM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=yiv37509273>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS">Hello</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS">Well if money is no object try
this:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS"><A
href="http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS">Unfortunately I'm too busy emptying
my bank account with important things like wind-up
gramophones....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS">In case of difficulty, don't forget
the third way of communicating with the computer - SHOUT.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS">John</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228)"><B>From:</B>
<A title=wvanrooijen@yahoo.com
href="/mc/compose?to=wvanrooijen@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow
target=_blank ymailto="mailto:wvanrooijen@yahoo.com">Wilfred van
Rooijen</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=xetex@tug.org
href="/mc/compose?to=xetex@tug.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank
ymailto="mailto:xetex@tug.org">Unicode-based TeX for Mac OS X and
other platforms</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 04, 2010
9:11 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [XeTeX]
Em-dash</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0>
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<TR>
<TD vAlign=top>Hi all,<BR><BR>This seems to be precisely the
issue. Xetex can read and understand all unicode characters,
but at this time, the only way to communicate with the
computer is through the keyboard and the mouse. Thus, there
will always be issues with "special characters". I don't know
if it exists, and if not it may be interesting to develop, but
a keyboard with LCD keys would be nice. Then one can switch
layout, and the characters on the keys appear differently. Of
course, there would still be strange side-effects, such as a
CJK space, which is really a 2-byte space, and xetex does not
treat it as a regular space (rather, treats it like ~, I
suppose).<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Wilfred<BR><BR>--- On <B>Tue,
4/5/10, Juan Francisco Fraile Vicente
<I><juanfranciscofv@gmail.com></I></B> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From:
Juan Francisco Fraile Vicente
<juanfranciscofv@gmail.com><BR>Subject: Re: [XeTeX]
Em-dash<BR>To: "Unicode-based TeX for Mac OS X and other
platforms" <xetex@tug.org><BR>Date: Tuesday, 4 May,
2010, 4:48 PM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=yiv227909979>Which is that compose key on Linux?
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I think all of you have a part of reason, but we have
to remember that one of the best things of the world of TeX
is the multiple options that offers. Erasing that
conventions would be a loss. </DIV>
<DIV>Although I agree (it's difficult to see --- sometimes
and the source code may result in low readability), XeTeX is
everyday more known for linguists that work with several
languages. And the great characteristic of XeTeX is a more
comfortable environment for working with several languages
(that it is possible in LaTeX, but some time ago it was not
so easy for some of us if working with Unicode).</DIV>
<DIV>Many people working with documents in several languages
have the same problem: it's necessary to change again and
again between language-keyboard. And every keyboard usually
puts diacritical marks, dashes, points and other chars where
the designer wanted/preferred. In this way those methods of
LaTeX are very productive: LaTeX accents, for instance, make
much easier to put vocalic quantities in Latin, or marks for
textual criticism in Greek like a point under a greek
letter. These are two examples only, and I agree with some
of you that suggest to learn the keyboard
distribution, but sometimes it's more difficult than it
seems (for instance, in Spain we have our own distribution,
specially different because it includes our 'ñ', and if I
change to Greek layout on Linux is really different and few
intuitive for Spanish users). I am designing a layout for
Ancient Greek for Spanish keyboard and people who will use
it will have to learn where I put the em-dash for instance,
but if they work with XeTeX and those codes of LaTeX, this
question is independent of the keyboard, the system or the
editor, I think.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Sorry if I have made any mistake talking about XeTeX, I
will be always a **TeX learner...</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Best regards,</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Juan Francisco <BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>2010/5/4 Andrew Moschou <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A
rel=nofollow>andmos@gmail.com</A>></SPAN><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>On Linux, there is the compose key, on
Mac, there is the option/alt key, and both are very
convenient. On Windows, there are the alt key codes but
these are very inconvenient, instead you can use the
program AllChars (<A href="http://allchars.zwolnet.com"
rel=nofollow target=_blank>allchars.zwolnet.com</A>) which
imitates the behaviour of the compose key. I use these
methods and have learnt the few combinations that
represent the common unicode characters (dashes and quote
marks apart from accented letters).<BR><BR>I would argue
that using the proper characters increases readability of
the source code: e.g. J\"urgen Strau\ss{} is harder to
read than Jürgen Strauß.<BR><BR>The tricky thing about the
various dashes is that, with a monospaced font, it is hard
to work out what sort of dash you are looking at (they're
all the same length).<BR><FONT
color=#888888><BR>Andrew</FONT>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=h5><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On 4 May 2010 13:15, Wilfred van
Rooijen <SPAN dir=ltr><<A
rel=nofollow>wvanrooijen@yahoo.com</A>></SPAN>
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>I'd have to somehow input the
character directly, and I am sure that there are ways to
do that, but those will not increase readability of the
source code
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