<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Dear Mike,<div><br></div><div>thanks a lot for your detailed e-mail. Not very encouraging though… I would have to think about how to solve this problem for me now. As I have got really no expertise at all, but I am sure that I want to work the way with LyX I do up to now. Maybe I’m going to finish my more important documents in InDesign – which I have used for a long time. Latex’ ability to provide margin alignment was one of the reasons why I switched and started working with LyX.</div><div><br></div><div>Best</div><div>Jess</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><br></span></span></font></div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div><div>Am 02.01.2010 um 13:39 schrieb Michael Lynch:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>Dear Jess,<br><br>OpenType fonts (and possibly AAT fonts too) allow the inclusion of different features. One of these is an optical bounds table which can be included as part of OpenType fonts by the developer (see <a href="http://www.microsoft.com/OpenType/otspec/features_ko.htm#opbd)">http://www.microsoft.com/OpenType/otspec/features_ko.htm#opbd)</a>, which would describe for individual glyphs how far they should protrude to achieve proper optical margins. Currently, I believe very few fonts (possibly none!) support this feature. Certainly, none of the fonts I have seem to have these tables.<br><br>The second half of the problem is that the layout engine needs to support this feature. XeTeX does not currently allow for this, and as I understand, there is no simple way to port the code used in pdfTeX due to the different internals of XeTeX. I've seen mention that LuaTeX will support this feature and the micro-typographic features currently available in pdfTeX, but I'm not sure what it'll do when fonts don't contain the required features.<br><br>(At the moment, pdfTeX with the microtype package is in the advantageous position that typically, a relatively small set of fonts are used. It comes with settings for a basic set of fonts (see <a href="http://www.tex.ac.uk/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/microtype/microtype.pdf">http://www.tex.ac.uk/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/microtype/microtype.pdf</a>, page 21), and if other fonts are used, I think generic values are used instead. I don't think this would be a reasonable option for XeTeX given the variety of fonts often used.<br>The only other program that I know of that supports optical margins is Adobe InDesign (excepting the hz-program, which I don't think is widely available). Looking at it, it clearly implements them somehow, but since the tables don't exist in fonts I don't know what it does. By way of pure speculation, it may also use generic values or possibly try to calculate its own values for the optical bounds from the glyphs themselves. I don't even know if it uses the correct values if the font happens to provide them, but I guess that at least could be tested relatively easily.)<br><br>I'm afraid none of this is very much help for you. Unfortunately the feature you want is not currently supported by XeTeX, and even if it was added to tomorrow, most fonts don't support it anyway. Sorry for the rather long response but I hope this clears it up at least.<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Mike<br><br>(If you have the expertise to add it, from previous responses on the list, I think you'd make a lot of people happy! We'd also need some sort of mechanism to specify a mechanism where these values could be specified separately. This would rather complicate the situation, but given that not all fonts' licenses allow modifications to be made, I think it's the only reasonable way to make it work. Even if these modifications were allowed, it would make documents dramatically less portable, as they would depend on locally modified fonts with the added opbd tables, rather than just specifying extra settings which made it clear that these were additional features.)<br><br>On 02/01/2010 08:04, jezZiFeR wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite">Dear Pete,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">thank you. The reason why I want to use micro-typography is because I want to have the margins aligned. I especially don´t like the hyphens inside of the text. You mentioned the »opbd table« which would allow optical alignment – is it the optical alignment of the outer margin, which is meant? What is »opbd table«, and how could I use it?<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Thanks again, best<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Jess<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Am 01.01.2010 um 23:25 schrieb Peter Dyballa:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Am 01.01.2010 um 22:18 schrieb jezZiFeR:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Is there any solution to this?<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Somewhen in this millennium, presumingly earlier.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Are there any more information on this topic?<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Yes, there might be a dozen threads on this topic in XeTeX mailings archive, I think here: <a href="http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex">http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex</a>. XeTeX uses features built into the font while the microtype package uses some "external" information. Almost a year ago, in February, Adam Twardowsky mentioned the opbd table, which, if implemented, would allow font protrusion and the rand table "optical/grey value alignment."<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Why would you like to use XeTeX with micro-typography?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">-- <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Greetings<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Pete<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">There are very few jobs that actually require a penis or vagina. All other jobs should be open to everybody.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> – Florynce Kennedy<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">--------------------------------------------------<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex">http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">--------------------------------------------------<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex">http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex</a><br></blockquote><br><br><br>--------------------------------------------------<br>Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:<br> <a href="http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex">http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex</a><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></body></html>