[XeTeX] XeTeX and microtype-package…
jezZiFeR
jezzifer at googlemail.com
Mon Jan 4 17:41:56 CET 2010
Dear Khaled,
thank you very much for that hint, I´ll try that out in the next days,
maybe this could be a solution.
Thanks again, best
Jess
Am 03.01.2010 um 12:53 schrieb Khaled Hosny:
> I'd suggest you try LuaLaTeX with fontspec from github[1], it should
> work with microtype package while being able to use OpenType fonts.
> But
> note that this is a development version of fontspec and not very well
> tested.
>
> [1] http://github.com/khaledhosny/fontspec
>
> Regards,
> Khaled
>
> On Sat, Jan 02, 2010 at 10:47:21PM +0100, jezZiFeR wrote:
>> Dear Mike,
>>
>> thanks a lot for your detailed e-mail. Not very encouraging though…
>> I would
>> have to think about how to solve this problem for me now. As I have
>> got really
>> no expertise at all, but I am sure that I want to work the way with
>> LyX I do up
>> to now. Maybe I’m going to finish my more important documents in
>> InDesign –
>> which I have used for a long time. Latex’ ability to provide margin
>> alignment
>> was one of the reasons why I switched and started working with LyX.
>>
>> Best
>> Jess
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 02.01.2010 um 13:39 schrieb Michael Lynch:
>>
>>
>> Dear Jess,
>>
>> OpenType fonts (and possibly AAT fonts too) allow the inclusion of
>> different features. One of these is an optical bounds table
>> which can be
>> included as part of OpenType fonts by the developer (see http://
>> www.microsoft.com/OpenType/otspec/features_ko.htm#opbd), which
>> would
>> describe for individual glyphs how far they should protrude to
>> achieve
>> proper optical margins. Currently, I believe very few fonts
>> (possibly
>> none!) support this feature. Certainly, none of the fonts I have
>> seem to
>> have these tables.
>>
>> The second half of the problem is that the layout engine needs
>> to support
>> this feature. XeTeX does not currently allow for this, and as I
>> understand,
>> there is no simple way to port the code used in pdfTeX due to
>> the different
>> internals of XeTeX. I've seen mention that LuaTeX will support
>> this feature
>> and the micro-typographic features currently available in
>> pdfTeX, but I'm
>> not sure what it'll do when fonts don't contain the required
>> features.
>>
>> (At the moment, pdfTeX with the microtype package is in the
>> advantageous
>> position that typically, a relatively small set of fonts are
>> used. It comes
>> with settings for a basic set of fonts (see http://www.tex.ac.uk/
>> tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/microtype/microtype.pdf, page
>> 21), and if
>> other fonts are used, I think generic values are used instead. I
>> don't
>> think this would be a reasonable option for XeTeX given the
>> variety of
>> fonts often used.
>> The only other program that I know of that supports optical
>> margins is
>> Adobe InDesign (excepting the hz-program, which I don't think is
>> widely
>> available). Looking at it, it clearly implements them somehow,
>> but since
>> the tables don't exist in fonts I don't know what it does. By
>> way of pure
>> speculation, it may also use generic values or possibly try to
>> calculate
>> its own values for the optical bounds from the glyphs
>> themselves. I don't
>> even know if it uses the correct values if the font happens to
>> provide
>> them, but I guess that at least could be tested relatively
>> easily.)
>>
>> I'm afraid none of this is very much help for you. Unfortunately
>> the
>> feature you want is not currently supported by XeTeX, and even
>> if it was
>> added to tomorrow, most fonts don't support it anyway. Sorry for
>> the rather
>> long response but I hope this clears it up at least.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> (If you have the expertise to add it, from previous responses on
>> the list,
>> I think you'd make a lot of people happy! We'd also need some
>> sort of
>> mechanism to specify a mechanism where these values could be
>> specified
>> separately. This would rather complicate the situation, but
>> given that not
>> all fonts' licenses allow modifications to be made, I think it's
>> the only
>> reasonable way to make it work. Even if these modifications were
>> allowed,
>> it would make documents dramatically less portable, as they
>> would depend on
>> locally modified fonts with the added opbd tables, rather than
>> just
>> specifying extra settings which made it clear that these were
>> additional
>> features.)
>>
>> On 02/01/2010 08:04, jezZiFeR wrote:
>>
>> Dear Pete,
>>
>>
>>
>> thank you. The reason why I want to use micro-typography is
>> because I
>> want to have the margins aligned. I especially don´t like
>> the hyphens
>> inside of the text. You mentioned the »opbd table« which
>> would allow
>> optical alignment – is it the optical alignment of the outer
>> margin,
>> which is meant? What is »opbd table«, and how could I use it?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks again, best
>>
>> Jess
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 01.01.2010 um 23:25 schrieb Peter Dyballa:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 01.01.2010 um 22:18 schrieb jezZiFeR:
>>
>>
>>
>> Is there any solution to this?
>>
>>
>>
>> Somewhen in this millennium, presumingly earlier.
>>
>>
>>
>> Are there any more information on this topic?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, there might be a dozen threads on this topic in
>> XeTeX mailings
>> archive, I think here: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
>> . XeTeX
>> uses features built into the font while the microtype
>> package uses
>> some "external" information. Almost a year ago, in
>> February, Adam
>> Twardowsky mentioned the opbd table, which, if
>> implemented, would
>> allow font protrusion and the rand table "optical/grey
>> value
>> alignment."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Why would you like to use XeTeX with micro-typography?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Greetings
>>
>>
>>
>> Pete
>>
>>
>>
>> There are very few jobs that actually require a penis or
>> vagina.
>> All other jobs should be open to everybody.
>>
>> – Florynce Kennedy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
> --
> Khaled Hosny
> Arabic localiser and member of Arabeyes.org team
> Free font developer
>
>
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