[XeTeX] XeTeX and microtype-package…

jezZiFeR jezzifer at googlemail.com
Mon Jan 4 17:41:56 CET 2010


Dear Khaled,

thank you very much for that hint, I´ll try that out in the next days,  
maybe this could be a solution.

Thanks again, best
Jess







Am 03.01.2010 um 12:53 schrieb Khaled Hosny:

> I'd suggest you try LuaLaTeX with fontspec from github[1], it should
> work with microtype package while being able to use OpenType fonts.  
> But
> note that this is a development version of fontspec and not very well
> tested.
>
> [1] http://github.com/khaledhosny/fontspec
>
> Regards,
> Khaled
>
> On Sat, Jan 02, 2010 at 10:47:21PM +0100, jezZiFeR wrote:
>> Dear Mike,
>>
>> thanks a lot for your detailed e-mail. Not very encouraging though…  
>> I would
>> have to think about how to solve this problem for me now. As I have  
>> got really
>> no expertise at all, but I am sure that I want to work the way with  
>> LyX I do up
>> to now. Maybe I’m going to finish my more important documents in  
>> InDesign –
>> which I have used for a long time. Latex’ ability to provide margin  
>> alignment
>> was one of the reasons why I switched and started working with LyX.
>>
>> Best
>> Jess
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 02.01.2010 um 13:39 schrieb Michael Lynch:
>>
>>
>>    Dear Jess,
>>
>>    OpenType fonts (and possibly AAT fonts too) allow the inclusion of
>>    different features. One of these is an optical bounds table  
>> which can be
>>    included as part of OpenType fonts by the developer (see http://
>>    www.microsoft.com/OpenType/otspec/features_ko.htm#opbd), which  
>> would
>>    describe for individual glyphs how far they should protrude to  
>> achieve
>>    proper optical margins. Currently, I believe very few fonts  
>> (possibly
>>    none!) support this feature. Certainly, none of the fonts I have  
>> seem to
>>    have these tables.
>>
>>    The second half of the problem is that the layout engine needs  
>> to support
>>    this feature. XeTeX does not currently allow for this, and as I  
>> understand,
>>    there is no simple way to port the code used in pdfTeX due to  
>> the different
>>    internals of XeTeX. I've seen mention that LuaTeX will support  
>> this feature
>>    and the micro-typographic features currently available in  
>> pdfTeX, but I'm
>>    not sure what it'll do when fonts don't contain the required  
>> features.
>>
>>    (At the moment, pdfTeX with the microtype package is in the  
>> advantageous
>>    position that typically, a relatively small set of fonts are  
>> used. It comes
>>    with settings for a basic set of fonts (see http://www.tex.ac.uk/
>>    tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/microtype/microtype.pdf, page  
>> 21), and if
>>    other fonts are used, I think generic values are used instead. I  
>> don't
>>    think this would be a reasonable option for XeTeX given the  
>> variety of
>>    fonts often used.
>>    The only other program that I know of that supports optical  
>> margins is
>>    Adobe InDesign (excepting the hz-program, which I don't think is  
>> widely
>>    available). Looking at it, it clearly implements them somehow,  
>> but since
>>    the tables don't exist in fonts I don't know what it does. By  
>> way of pure
>>    speculation, it may also use generic values or possibly try to  
>> calculate
>>    its own values for the optical bounds from the glyphs  
>> themselves. I don't
>>    even know if it uses the correct values if the font happens to  
>> provide
>>    them, but I guess that at least could be tested relatively  
>> easily.)
>>
>>    I'm afraid none of this is very much help for you. Unfortunately  
>> the
>>    feature you want is not currently supported by XeTeX, and even  
>> if it was
>>    added to tomorrow, most fonts don't support it anyway. Sorry for  
>> the rather
>>    long response but I hope this clears it up at least.
>>
>>    Regards,
>>
>>    Mike
>>
>>    (If you have the expertise to add it, from previous responses on  
>> the list,
>>    I think you'd make a lot of people happy! We'd also need some  
>> sort of
>>    mechanism to specify a mechanism where these values could be  
>> specified
>>    separately. This would rather complicate the situation, but  
>> given that not
>>    all fonts' licenses allow modifications to be made, I think it's  
>> the only
>>    reasonable way to make it work. Even if these modifications were  
>> allowed,
>>    it would make documents dramatically less portable, as they  
>> would depend on
>>    locally modified fonts with the added opbd tables, rather than  
>> just
>>    specifying extra settings which made it clear that these were  
>> additional
>>    features.)
>>
>>    On 02/01/2010 08:04, jezZiFeR wrote:
>>
>>        Dear Pete,
>>
>>
>>
>>        thank you. The reason why I want to use micro-typography is  
>> because I
>>        want to have the margins aligned. I especially don´t like  
>> the hyphens
>>        inside of the text. You mentioned the »opbd table« which  
>> would allow
>>        optical alignment – is it the optical alignment of the outer  
>> margin,
>>        which is meant? What is »opbd table«, and how could I use it?
>>
>>
>>
>>        Thanks again, best
>>
>>        Jess
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>        Am 01.01.2010 um 23:25 schrieb Peter Dyballa:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>            Am 01.01.2010 um 22:18 schrieb jezZiFeR:
>>
>>
>>
>>                Is there any solution to this?
>>
>>
>>
>>            Somewhen in this millennium, presumingly earlier.
>>
>>
>>
>>                Are there any more information on this topic?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>            Yes, there might be a dozen threads on this topic in  
>> XeTeX mailings
>>            archive, I think here: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex 
>> . XeTeX
>>            uses features built into the font while the microtype  
>> package uses
>>            some "external" information. Almost a year ago, in  
>> February, Adam
>>            Twardowsky mentioned the opbd table, which, if  
>> implemented, would
>>            allow font protrusion and the rand table "optical/grey  
>> value
>>            alignment."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>            Why would you like to use XeTeX with micro-typography?
>>
>>
>>
>>            --
>>
>>            Greetings
>>
>>
>>
>>            Pete
>>
>>
>>
>>            There are very few jobs that actually require a penis or  
>> vagina.
>>            All other jobs should be open to everybody.
>>
>>                           – Florynce Kennedy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>>
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>
> -- 
> Khaled Hosny
> Arabic localiser and member of Arabeyes.org team
> Free font developer
>
>
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