<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On 31 January 2018 at 09:17, Philip Taylor (RHUoL) <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:P.Taylor@rhul.ac.uk" target="_blank">P.Taylor@rhul.ac.uk</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div class="m_-7817914311097609463moz-cite-prefix">George N. White III wrote:<br>
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<div class="gmail_quote">[...] it is not unreasonable to
simple state
<span class=""><div>that a suitable downloader must be provided before
attempting to</div>
<div>run the installer. <br>
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I am sorry, George, I completely disagree. Someone seeking to
install TeX Live can reasonably be assumed to know a little about
computer typesetting and a little about using the operating system
of his/her choice; there is no <i>a priori</i> evidence that he or
she knows anything more. Therefore, to expect such a user to
locate, download and install "a suitable downloader" is (IMHO)
completelu unreasonable. A suitable downloader should form an
integral part of the TeX Live installer, and automatically come
therewith.<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
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Philip Taylor<br></font></span></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">The need to support HTTPS is what started this thread. Downloaders that support HTTPS brings in many new complications such as handling HTTP redirects to HTTPS servers, cipher suites, and certificates.</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">Most users rely on vendors to make this work, and regular updates to keep it going as the standards evolve. Supporting HTTPS with TeX Live's wget may not be practical, and in any case is a large task. </div><br class="gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"><br></div><div>I work in a government research institute, so there are many TeX installations. <span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">I avoid Windows, but it is the "corporate standard" so I can't completely avoid it. I use 2 applications (ESA SNAP, QGIS. both with normal Windows installers and regular upgrades) that provide a curl.exe in a "private" location within the application's folders. <span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">TeX Live users often continue with their original version for years. </span></span>There have been problems where a user needed wget so copied the version from TeX Live to a more convenient location. Then the US gov. got rid of their HTTP servers and users ran into (difficult to diagnose) problems with wget and HTTPS URL's. My experience says there are far too many downloaders floating around on Windows systems already. As file servers move to https with newer ciphers, downloaders that have not been updated stopped working. Windows applications protect themselves by including a private downloader (usually curl) that gets newer versions thru the application's own updater. </div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra">Many installers based on more normal Windows standards include downloaders and are easier for users than the TeX Live installer. If wget is not included, and not alread installed by some other packages, there does need to be support in the form of a list of Windows packages with good installers that provide a downloader. I don't have anaconda python on Windows because another work application (ArcGIS) provides a python system. If the TeX Live installer uses an external downloader it may be useful to provide a tool that generates a list (with versions) of already installed downloaders and ask the user to choose the one they wish to use. On Unix the priorities should have already been set using the PATH variable, so the choice would be between wget, curl, and gnurl. On Windows a search becomes more complex, so if a downloader is not found via the PATH and maybe a few additional common locations, then the user may have to enter the location for the downloader they wish to use.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div>George N. White III<br><br></div></div></div>
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