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<div>Begin forwarded message:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
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<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>From:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Boris Veytsman <<a href="mailto:borisv@lk.net">borisv@lk.net</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Date:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">4 November 2016 4:32:02 AM AEDT<br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>To:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Volker Sorge <<a href="mailto:volker.sorge@gmail.com">volker.sorge@gmail.com</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Cc:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><<a href="mailto:ross.moore@mq.edu.au">ross.moore@mq.edu.au</a>>, <<a href="mailto:jbigham@cs.cmu.edu">jbigham@cs.cmu.edu</a>>, <<a href="mailto:karl@freefriends.org">karl@freefriends.org</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Subject:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><b>Re: Making PDFs produced from Latex accessible</b><br>
</span></div>
<br>
<div>VS> From: Volker Sorge <<a href="mailto:volker.sorge@gmail.com">volker.sorge@gmail.com</a>><br>
VS> Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2016 09:51:26 -0700<br>
<br>
VS> Having said that, I am still hoping that we can come up with a pragmatic<br>
VS> initial solution, and find funding for it, that will help authors with some<br>
VS> of the most important tasks, i.e., using the Google credo: "get out a beta<br>
VS> asap and then iterate". I think this is better achieved by a small group of<br>
VS> people, than on a public mailing list, which might dilute discussions.<br>
<br>
<br>
Ross, Volker, could you estimate the funding needs? I cannot promise<br>
anything, but if I had a number, I could start talking to the<br>
publishers.<br>
<br>
If you could write a one page summary for non-technical people: here<br>
is what we plan to do, here is how much money we need, this would<br>
help.<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Good luck<br>
<br>
-Boris<br>
<br>
Nothing is rich but the inexhaustible wealth of nature.<br>
She shows us only surfaces, but she is a million fathoms deep.<br>
<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>-- Ralph Waldo Emerson<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>Begin forwarded message:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>From:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Volker Sorge <<a href="mailto:volker.sorge@gmail.com">volker.sorge@gmail.com</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Date:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">4 November 2016 3:51:26 AM AEDT<br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>To:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Ross Moore <<a href="mailto:ross.moore@mq.edu.au">ross.moore@mq.edu.au</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Cc:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Boris Veytsman <<a href="mailto:borisv@lk.net">borisv@lk.net</a>>, Jeffrey Bigham <<a href="mailto:jbigham@cs.cmu.edu">jbigham@cs.cmu.edu</a>>, Karl Berry <<a href="mailto:karl@freefriends.org">karl@freefriends.org</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Subject:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><b>Re: Making PDFs produced from Latex accessible</b><br>
</span></div>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">Hi Ross,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks for the detailed explanations. Sorry for not replying earlier, but I have been travelling since the weekend (currently stationary in Oregon until Sunday).</div>
<div>I agree that the I am happy with putting the discussion so far on the mailing list; all the points you've made should be properly archived.</div>
<div>Having said that, I am still hoping that we can come up with a pragmatic initial solution, and find funding for it, that will help authors with some of the most important tasks, i.e., using the Google credo: "get out a beta asap and then iterate". I think
this is better achieved by a small group of people, than on a public mailing list, which might dilute discussions.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As for a f2f: Would some time next week work? I could do Tuesday, Thursday or Friday.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div>Volker</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 30 October 2016 at 18:10, Ross Moore <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:ross.moore@mq.edu.au" target="_blank">ross.moore@mq.edu.au</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">Hi Jeff, Volker, Karl
<div><span class=""><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On 31 Oct 2016, at 11:14, Boris Veytsman <<a href="mailto:borisv@lk.net" target="_blank">borisv@lk.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
RM> From: Ross Moore <<a href="mailto:ross.moore@mq.edu.au" target="_blank">ross.moore@mq.edu.au</a>><br>
RM> Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2016 21:40:29 +0000<br>
<br>
<br>
RM> BTW, if you want to switch this discussion to the TUG Accessibility WG,<br>
RM> then do so. Jeff and Volker could then sign up to it.<br>
RM> (Karl probably is already. :-)<br>
<br>
I certainly would like to. If you could forward the previous e-mail<br>
to the list, we would have a history of the discussion<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
</span>
<div>Is it OK with you, Jeff & Volker, that the emails prior to this</div>
<div>be recorded in the TUG WG mailing-list archive?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Then they will be accessible (sic.) to more interested parties.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a href="http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility" target="_blank">http://tug.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/accessibility</a></div>
<div><a href="http://tug.org/pipermail/accessibility/" target="_blank">http://tug.org/pipermail/<wbr>accessibility/</a></div>
<div><a href="http://www.tug.org/twg/accessibility/" target="_blank">http://www.tug.org/twg/<wbr>accessibility/</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please respond with a yah or nay, within the next day or two.</div>
<span class="">
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
Thanks<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Good luck<br>
<br>
-Boris<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</span>Cheers</div>
<span class="">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span class="m_4209107221805971656Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span>Ross<br>
<br>
<div><br>
Dr Ross Moore<br>
Mathematics Dept | Level 2, S2.638 AHH<br>
Macquarie University, NSW 2109, Australia<br>
<br>
T: <a href="tel:%2B61%202%209850%C2%A08955" value="+61298508955" target="_blank">+61 2 9850 8955</a> | F: <a href="tel:%2B61%202%209850%208114" value="+61298508114" target="_blank">+61 2 9850 8114</a><br>
M:<a href="tel:%2B61%20407%20288%20255" value="+61407288255" target="_blank">+61 407 288 255</a> | E: <a href="mailto:ross.moore@mq.edu.au" target="_blank">ross.moore@mq.edu.au</a><br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.maths.mq.edu.au/" target="_blank">http://www.maths.mq.edu.au</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<span><img height="58" width="260" id="m_42091072218059716564A460BC4-0079-4A1F-9926-E22AB917E5F5" apple-width="yes" apple-height="yes" src="cid:image001.png@01D030BE.D37A46F0"></span><br>
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CRICOS Provider Number 00002J. Think before you print. <br>
Please consider the environment before printing this email.<br>
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This message is intended for the addressee named and may <br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>Begin forwarded message:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>From:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Ross Moore <<a href="mailto:ross.moore@mq.edu.au">ross.moore@mq.edu.au</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Date:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">31 October 2016 12:10:40 PM AEDT<br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>To:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Boris Veytsman <<a href="mailto:borisv@lk.net">borisv@lk.net</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Cc:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Volker Sorge <<a href="mailto:volker.sorge@gmail.com">volker.sorge@gmail.com</a>>, Jeffrey Bigham <<a href="mailto:jbigham@cs.cmu.edu">jbigham@cs.cmu.edu</a>>, Karl Berry <<a href="mailto:karl@freefriends.org">karl@freefriends.org</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Subject:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><b>Re: Making PDFs produced from Latex accessible</b><br>
</span></div>
<br>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
Hi Jeff, Volker, Karl
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">On 31 Oct 2016, at 11:14, Boris Veytsman <<a href="mailto:borisv@lk.net" class="">borisv@lk.net</a>> wrote:<br class="">
<br class="">
RM> From: Ross Moore <<a href="mailto:ross.moore@mq.edu.au" class="">ross.moore@mq.edu.au</a>><br class="">
RM> Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2016 21:40:29 +0000<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
RM> BTW, if you want to switch this discussion to the TUG Accessibility WG,<br class="">
RM> then do so. Jeff and Volker could then sign up to it.<br class="">
RM> (Karl probably is already. :-)<br class="">
<br class="">
I certainly would like to. If you could forward the previous e-mail<br class="">
to the list, we would have a history of the discussion<br class="">
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Is it OK with you, Jeff & Volker, that the emails prior to this</div>
<div class="">be recorded in the TUG WG mailing-list archive?</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Then they will be accessible (sic.) to more interested parties.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><a href="http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility" class="">http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility</a></div>
<div class=""><a href="http://tug.org/pipermail/accessibility/" class="">http://tug.org/pipermail/accessibility/</a></div>
<div class=""><a href="http://www.tug.org/twg/accessibility/" class="">http://www.tug.org/twg/accessibility/</a></div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Please respond with a yah or nay, within the next day or two.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class="">
Thanks<br class="">
<br class="">
-- <br class="">
Good luck<br class="">
<br class="">
-Boris<br class="">
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
Cheers</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>Ross<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
Dr Ross Moore<br class="">
Mathematics Dept | Level 2, S2.638 AHH<br class="">
Macquarie University, NSW 2109, Australia<br class="">
<br class="">
T: +61 2 9850 8955 | F: +61 2 9850 8114<br class="">
M:+61 407 288 255 | E: <a href="mailto:ross.moore@mq.edu.au" class="">ross.moore@mq.edu.au</a><br class="">
<br class="">
<a href="http://www.maths.mq.edu.au">http://www.maths.mq.edu.au</a><br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<span><img height="58" width="260" apple-inline="yes" id="4A460BC4-0079-4A1F-9926-E22AB917E5F5" apple-width="yes" apple-height="yes" class="" src="cid:image001.png@01D030BE.D37A46F0"></span><br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
CRICOS Provider Number 00002J. Think before you print. <br class="">
Please consider the environment before printing this email.<br class="">
<br class="">
This message is intended for the addressee named and may <br class="">
contain confidential information. If you are not the intended <br class="">
recipient, please delete it and notify the sender. Views expressed <br class="">
in this message are those of the individual sender, and are not <br class="">
necessarily the views of Macquarie University.<br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>Begin forwarded message:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>From:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Boris Veytsman <<a href="mailto:borisv@lk.net">borisv@lk.net</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Date:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">31 October 2016 11:14:41 AM AEDT<br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>To:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Ross Moore <<a href="mailto:ross.moore@mq.edu.au">ross.moore@mq.edu.au</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Cc:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><<a href="mailto:volker.sorge@gmail.com">volker.sorge@gmail.com</a>>, <<a href="mailto:jbigham@cs.cmu.edu">jbigham@cs.cmu.edu</a>>, <<a href="mailto:karl@freefriends.org">karl@freefriends.org</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Subject:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><b>Re: Making PDFs produced from Latex accessible</b><br>
</span></div>
<br>
<div>RM> From: Ross Moore <<a href="mailto:ross.moore@mq.edu.au">ross.moore@mq.edu.au</a>><br>
RM> Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2016 21:40:29 +0000<br>
<br>
<br>
RM> BTW, if you want to switch this discussion to the TUG Accessibility WG,<br>
RM> then do so. Jeff and Volker could then sign up to it.<br>
RM> (Karl probably is already. :-)<br>
<br>
I certainly would like to. If you could forward the previous e-mail<br>
to the list, we would have a history of the discussion<br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Good luck<br>
<br>
-Boris<br>
<br>
We know all about the habits of the ant, we know all about the habits of the<br>
bee, but we know nothing at all about the habits of the oyster. It seems<br>
almost certain that we have been choosing the wrong time for studying the<br>
oyster.<br>
<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>-- Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar"<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>Begin forwarded message:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>From:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Ross Moore <<a href="mailto:ross.moore@mq.edu.au">ross.moore@mq.edu.au</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Date:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">31 October 2016 8:40:28 AM AEDT<br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>To:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Boris Veytsman <<a href="mailto:borisv@lk.net">borisv@lk.net</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Cc:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><<a href="mailto:volker.sorge@gmail.com">volker.sorge@gmail.com</a>>, <<a href="mailto:jbigham@cs.cmu.edu">jbigham@cs.cmu.edu</a>>, Karl Berry <<a href="mailto:karl@freefriends.org">karl@freefriends.org</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Subject:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><b>Re: Making PDFs produced from Latex accessible</b><br>
</span></div>
<br>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
Hi Boris,
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">On 31 Oct 2016, at 05:02, Boris Veytsman <<a href="mailto:borisv@lk.net" class="">borisv@lk.net</a>> wrote:<br class="">
<br class="">
Hi, Ross<br class="">
<br class="">
Thanks for your very interesting letter. I am glad to hear you are<br class="">
working on this. Let me know if you need any help in testing,<br class="">
development or funding.<br class="">
<br class="">
I would like to discuss another use case, which is relevant to my<br class="">
work. Consider a LaTeX class author. Suppose she wants to make a<br class="">
class that produces accessible PDFs. As a document class author, she<br class="">
has much better control than the document author: for example, she can<br class="">
put any tag code in the headers and footers, can plug into output<br class="">
routine, can expressly forbid loading packages incompatible with the<br class="">
accessibility code, etc. Thus an accessibility package with the<br class="">
interface for class authors might be simpler to make than an<br class="">
accessibility package with the interface for document authors.<br class="">
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Certainly a class-file is better than a package, as it gets loaded sooner.</div>
<div class="">Ideally, most of the work would be done using macros defined within </div>
<div class="">a format file; e.g. taggedLaTeX.fmt .</div>
<div class="">But that’s something for the future, after we have stable, bullet-proof coding.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Yes, a tagged PDF file can be created using ordinary LaTeX only, </div>
<div class="">involving heavy use of \pdfobj , \pdfobj useobjnum<num> and \pdfliteral </div>
<div class="">plus masses of macros to store the structure tree and object-numbers,</div>
<div class="">until all the siblings and parents of each structure element is known.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">The resulting document would be like a form to be filled out.</div>
<div class="">All the fields are pre-determined, and only appropriately-styled information</div>
<div class="">would be allowed to be entered into those fields.</div>
<div class="">Page-breaks would have to be tightly controlled; indeed pre-determined. </div>
<div class="">Paragraphing might be possible in some fields, especially if \par (or similar)</div>
<div class="">was used explicitly. Style-changes such as bold and/or italic can be</div>
<div class="">programmed and tagged, but this would be hard to merge with the</div>
<div class="">pre-defined structure — extra list-like macros would be needed to ensure</div>
<div class="">these spans of content get properly attached as leaves to <PARA> tagging.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">That the appropriate metadata would be supplied via the pdfx.sty package</div>
<div class="">goes pretty-much without saying. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I think you’ll find that River Valley creates tagged PDFs for publishers</div>
<div class="">who request it (e.g., Elsevier).</div>
<div class="">But this is done by having tight control of the pagination.</div>
<div class="">Once an acceptable full pagination is determined, then it gets frozen for</div>
<div class="">subsequent processing. Now the \pdfobj object numbers get stored, </div>
<div class="">and the structure tree determined and added afterwards.</div>
<div class="">It’s a multi-step process that only someone like a pre-Press house</div>
<div class="">(as they are) would invest the time into using.</div>
<div class="">Certainly this is beyond what individual authors could manage.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">My understanding (from several years ago) is that they tag large</div>
<div class="">areas of the page content, rather than go into detailed sub-tagging</div>
<div class="">of structures within paragraphs. I’m not at all sure of the extent</div>
<div class="">to which inline mathematical content is tagged.</div>
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class="">
I would suggest releasing such package first, so document class<br class="">
authors could use and test the code. What do you think?<br class="">
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Documents that use this would need to follow a very strict set</div>
<div class="">of rules for the type of content, and how it is handled.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Making examples that use this approach could be useful,</div>
<div class="">but certainly cannot be fully general.</div>
<div class="">We could then learn the kinds of things that can and cannot</div>
<div class="">be done easily, and establish some document-authoring macros</div>
<div class="">that could become common across classes of documents.<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Perhaps that’s what I’ll try for Mathematics exam papers,</div>
<div class="">before adapting to have the tagging done automatically using </div>
<div class="">the extended tagged-pdftex.</div>
<div class="">This is definitely a setting where you want such control over</div>
<div class="">content and layout.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class="">
<br class="">
-- <br class="">
Good luck<br class="">
<br class="">
-Boris<br class="">
<br class="">
Numeric stability is probably not all that important when you're guessing.<br class="">
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">BTW, if you want to switch this discussion to the TUG Accessibility WG,</div>
<div class="">then do so. Jeff and Volker could then sign up to it.</div>
<div class="">(Karl probably is already. :-)</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
Cheers</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>Ross<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
Dr Ross Moore<br class="">
Mathematics Dept | Level 2, S2.638 AHH<br class="">
Macquarie University, NSW 2109, Australia<br class="">
<br class="">
T: +61 2 9850 8955 | F: +61 2 9850 8114<br class="">
M:+61 407 288 255 | E: <a href="mailto:ross.moore@mq.edu.au" class="">ross.moore@mq.edu.au</a><br class="">
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