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Here is the final part of that email discussion.<br>
<div><br>
<div>Begin forwarded message:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>From:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Volker Sorge <<a href="mailto:volker.sorge@gmail.com">volker.sorge@gmail.com</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Date:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">8 November 2016 10:57:24 AM AEDT<br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>To:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Boris Veytsman <<a href="mailto:borisv@lk.net">borisv@lk.net</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Cc:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Ross Moore <<a href="mailto:ross.moore@mq.edu.au">ross.moore@mq.edu.au</a>>, Jeffrey Bigham <<a href="mailto:jbigham@cs.cmu.edu">jbigham@cs.cmu.edu</a>>, Karl Berry <<a href="mailto:karl@freefriends.org">karl@freefriends.org</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Subject:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><b>Re: Making PDFs produced from Latex accessible</b><br>
</span></div>
<br>
<div>Hi Ross,<br>
<br>
I understand your concerns and I fully trust your assessment on the<br>
difficulty of the task. While I would regard myself as an expert on<br>
Maths accessibility, my knowledge of the inner workings of TeX are<br>
limited. But I learnt enough about the intricacies of PDF when we were<br>
re-engineering PDF to LaTeX in our MaxTract project, to understand<br>
that it is not as simple as adding a bit of post-processing.<br>
<br>
However, I agree with Boris, that no-one would expect a promise for a<br>
fully working product in an initial project. I believe it would be<br>
enough to define what a reasonable proof of concept would be to get a<br>
feeling for what is required in terms of research and engineering<br>
efforts so we can get some financial estimates of how much money we<br>
would need.<br>
It it also timely now, what with MS Word producing reasonably<br>
accessible material on Macs now, there will be pressure on publishers<br>
to move away from workflows that include LaTeX. So if we do not start<br>
now on an effort it might be too late altogether.<br>
<br>
As for the Callas engine: I met Olaf this year at ICCHP in Linz and we<br>
had a very good discussion on accessible Maths and PDF. I'd be happy<br>
to reach out to him to bring him on board for an initial discussion.<br>
I also think that it is not unreasonable to expect authors to possibly<br>
pay for a software that validates accessible PDFs inside the TeX<br>
workflow. Currently authors submitting to conferences like Assets,<br>
W4A, etc also have to<br>
pay for Acrobat XI Pro to achieve the same and still have to ensure<br>
accessibility manually.<br>
<br>
Anyway, I am still in the Bay area this week. Next week I'll be in<br>
Denver at Accessing Higher Grounds which might make timing an f2f a<br>
bit more difficult. Afterwards I'll be back in the UK.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Volker<br>
<br>
<br>
On 5 November 2016 at 10:50, Boris Veytsman <<a href="mailto:borisv@lk.net">borisv@lk.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">RM> From: Ross Moore <<a href="mailto:ross.moore@mq.edu.au">ross.moore@mq.edu.au</a>><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">RM> Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2016 08:29:36 +0000<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">RM> What we need is a TeX engine that includes validation of the PDF<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">RM> output that is being produced.<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">I am not sure about this. This is especially important because of the<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">following:<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">RM> The de-facto standard for checking PDF structure is Callas Software.<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">RM> They have written the Preflight module that Adobe itself uses. We<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">RM> must contact them about what it would take for licensing use of<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">RM> their software in a TeX engine. Recall that Olaf Drümmer was a<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">RM> speaker at the recent TUG meeting in Darmstadt. So it is not<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">RM> unreasonable that we be allowed to include linking to their code,<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">RM> rather than having to develop validation software from scratch.<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Now suppose they allow the use of the validation engine only under the<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">license incompatible with TeXLive. Does it mean that many users will<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">not be able to produce tagged PDF?<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">I would be much more comfortable if the Preflight module is optional<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">for TeX processing: if it is present, it is used, if not, a warning<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">message is issued, but the processing is done.<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Anyway, could you talk to Callas people or do you want this to be made<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">on behalf of TUG?<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">RM> The only Open Source alternative is Poppler — but they have not<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">RM> yet embraced tagging to the extent that we will need.<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Again, if we can explain Poppler devlopers what do we want, and if we<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">have money to offer, we might get results.<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">[On money and charities]<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">RM> Until we can actually promise something definite, I think this is<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">RM> both premature and risky.<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Well, it is up to you. My opinion is that if you are honest and say<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">that you are doing a research, and not overpromise, you are clear.<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Charities spend every year billions on the research of cancer,<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">muscular distrophies, etc., while nobody expects an immediate cure.<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">This is perfectly understood by all sides. As long as the inherent<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">risk of research and development is clearly communicated to the donor,<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">I do not think asking for money is unethical or premature.<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">But again, I do not want to do what makes you uncomfortable.<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">--<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Good luck<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">-Boris<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">No act of kindness, no matter how small, is ever wasted.<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"> -- Aesop<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>Begin forwarded message:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>From:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Boris Veytsman <<a href="mailto:borisv@lk.net">borisv@lk.net</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Date:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">6 November 2016 4:50:08 AM AEDT<br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>To:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Ross Moore <<a href="mailto:ross.moore@mq.edu.au">ross.moore@mq.edu.au</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Cc:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><<a href="mailto:jbigham@cs.cmu.edu">jbigham@cs.cmu.edu</a>>, <<a href="mailto:volker.sorge@gmail.com">volker.sorge@gmail.com</a>>, <<a href="mailto:karl@freefriends.org">karl@freefriends.org</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Subject:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><b>Re: Making PDFs produced from Latex accessible</b><br>
</span></div>
<br>
<div>RM> From: Ross Moore <<a href="mailto:ross.moore@mq.edu.au">ross.moore@mq.edu.au</a>><br>
RM> Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2016 08:29:36 +0000<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
RM> What we need is a TeX engine that includes validation of the PDF<br>
RM> output that is being produced.<br>
<br>
I am not sure about this. This is especially important because of the<br>
following:<br>
<br>
<br>
RM> The de-facto standard for checking PDF structure is Callas Software.<br>
RM> They have written the Preflight module that Adobe itself uses. We<br>
RM> must contact them about what it would take for licensing use of<br>
RM> their software in a TeX engine. Recall that Olaf Drümmer was a<br>
RM> speaker at the recent TUG meeting in Darmstadt. So it is not<br>
RM> unreasonable that we be allowed to include linking to their code,<br>
RM> rather than having to develop validation software from scratch.<br>
<br>
Now suppose they allow the use of the validation engine only under the<br>
license incompatible with TeXLive. Does it mean that many users will<br>
not be able to produce tagged PDF?<br>
<br>
I would be much more comfortable if the Preflight module is optional<br>
for TeX processing: if it is present, it is used, if not, a warning<br>
message is issued, but the processing is done.<br>
<br>
Anyway, could you talk to Callas people or do you want this to be made<br>
on behalf of TUG?<br>
<br>
<br>
RM> The only Open Source alternative is Poppler — but they have not<br>
RM> yet embraced tagging to the extent that we will need.<br>
<br>
Again, if we can explain Poppler devlopers what do we want, and if we<br>
have money to offer, we might get results.<br>
<br>
[On money and charities]<br>
<br>
RM> Until we can actually promise something definite, I think this is<br>
RM> both premature and risky.<br>
<br>
Well, it is up to you. My opinion is that if you are honest and say<br>
that you are doing a research, and not overpromise, you are clear.<br>
<br>
Charities spend every year billions on the research of cancer,<br>
muscular distrophies, etc., while nobody expects an immediate cure.<br>
This is perfectly understood by all sides. As long as the inherent<br>
risk of research and development is clearly communicated to the donor,<br>
I do not think asking for money is unethical or premature.<br>
<br>
But again, I do not want to do what makes you uncomfortable. <br>
<br>
-- <br>
Good luck<br>
<br>
-Boris<br>
<br>
No act of kindness, no matter how small, is ever wasted.<br>
<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>-- Aesop<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>Begin forwarded message:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>From:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Ross Moore <<a href="mailto:ross.moore@mq.edu.au">ross.moore@mq.edu.au</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Date:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">5 November 2016 7:29:36 PM AEDT<br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>To:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Boris Veytsman <<a href="mailto:borisv@lk.net">borisv@lk.net</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Cc:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Jeffrey Bigham <<a href="mailto:jbigham@cs.cmu.edu">jbigham@cs.cmu.edu</a>>, "<a href="mailto:volker.sorge@gmail.com">volker.sorge@gmail.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:volker.sorge@gmail.com">volker.sorge@gmail.com</a>>,
"<a href="mailto:karl@freefriends.org">karl@freefriends.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:karl@freefriends.org">karl@freefriends.org</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Bcc:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Ross Moore <<a href="mailto:ross.moore@mq.edu.au">ross.moore@mq.edu.au</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Subject:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><b>Re: Making PDFs produced from Latex accessible</b><br>
</span></div>
<br>
<div>Hi Boris,<br>
<br>
On 05/11/2016, at 2:23, "Boris Veytsman" <<a href="mailto:borisv@lk.net">borisv@lk.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">JB> From: Jeffrey Bigham <<a href="mailto:jbigham@cs.cmu.edu">jbigham@cs.cmu.edu</a>><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">JB> Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2016 14:59:18 -0400<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">JB> But, would also like to come up with an initial solution with cost<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">JB> estimate, if that's a possibility. I may be able to help contribute or find<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">JB> funding as well, especially for specific goal of making the academic<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">JB> publications we're producing from Latex accessible.<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Great. Thanks!<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Let me remind that we (TUG) established a dedicated accessibility<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">development fund, so we do have a funding structure in place. Since<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">we are a tax-exempt organization, it would be easier for us to raise<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">money and pay the developers from this fund. <br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Besides publishers, I can knock the doors of charities and<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">foundations. They do support programs for low vision and blind<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">persons, and we can make a case that we help these people to work in<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">math & science. <br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I would be extremely reluctant to accept money from a charity.<br>
This should only be done if you can promise a good result.<br>
<br>
TeX software has a reputation for robustness and stability to do what users want.<br>
This cannot possibly be claimed for production of Tagged PDF output, for reasons that I've tried to explain in previous emails.
<br>
Recall that I have said how easy it is to produce invalid PDF that will not be noticed by PDF readers that do not care about tagging.<br>
<br>
What we need is a TeX engine that includes validation of the PDF output that is being produced.<br>
This validation needs to understand all the different published PDF standards.<br>
It needs to look at each page that is output, even while incomplete as a full document.<br>
Only if it could possibly be part of a valid tagged PDF document should it allow processing to continue, without an error message being posted.<br>
Then, at the end of the document, it should check whether the total result is indeed correctly tagged, both for structure and content. If not, there should be meaningful messages about what is wrong, and suggest how it can be fixed.<br>
<br>
Without such checking being built-in to the TeX engine, we are simply inviting disaster for the future of any TeX-based processing into tagged-PDF format.<br>
<br>
The de-facto standard for checking PDF structure is Callas Software.<br>
They have written the Preflight module that Adobe itself uses. We must contact them about what it would take for licensing use of their software in a TeX engine. Recall that Olaf Drümmer was a speaker at the recent TUG meeting in Darmstadt. So it is not unreasonable
that we be allowed to include linking to their code, rather than having to develop validation software from scratch.<br>
The only Open Source alternative is Poppler — but they have not yet embraced tagging to the extent that we will need.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">What I need is a short summary understandable to non-TeX and non-math<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">people. Maybe also CVs of the team?<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Until we can actually promise something definite, I think this is both premature and risky.<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">-- <br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Good luck<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">-Boris<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Minicomputer:<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"> A computer that can be afforded on the budget of a middle-level manager.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Ross</div>
</blockquote>
<div>Begin forwarded message:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>From:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Boris Veytsman <<a href="mailto:borisv@lk.net">borisv@lk.net</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Date:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">5 November 2016 2:23:04 AM AEDT<br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>To:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Jeffrey Bigham <<a href="mailto:jbigham@cs.cmu.edu">jbigham@cs.cmu.edu</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Cc:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><<a href="mailto:volker.sorge@gmail.com">volker.sorge@gmail.com</a>>, <<a href="mailto:ross.moore@mq.edu.au">ross.moore@mq.edu.au</a>>, <<a href="mailto:karl@freefriends.org">karl@freefriends.org</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Subject:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><b>Re: Making PDFs produced from Latex accessible</b><br>
</span></div>
<br>
<div>JB> From: Jeffrey Bigham <<a href="mailto:jbigham@cs.cmu.edu">jbigham@cs.cmu.edu</a>><br>
JB> Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2016 14:59:18 -0400<br>
<br>
<br>
JB> But, would also like to come up with an initial solution with cost<br>
JB> estimate, if that's a possibility. I may be able to help contribute or find<br>
JB> funding as well, especially for specific goal of making the academic<br>
JB> publications we're producing from Latex accessible.<br>
<br>
Great. Thanks!<br>
<br>
Let me remind that we (TUG) established a dedicated accessibility<br>
development fund, so we do have a funding structure in place. Since<br>
we are a tax-exempt organization, it would be easier for us to raise<br>
money and pay the developers from this fund. <br>
<br>
Besides publishers, I can knock the doors of charities and<br>
foundations. They do support programs for low vision and blind<br>
persons, and we can make a case that we help these people to work in<br>
math & science. <br>
<br>
What I need is a short summary understandable to non-TeX and non-math<br>
people. Maybe also CVs of the team?<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Good luck<br>
<br>
-Boris<br>
<br>
Minicomputer:<br>
<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>A computer that can be afforded on the budget of a middle-level manager.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>Begin forwarded message:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>From:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Jeffrey Bigham <<a href="mailto:jbigham@cs.cmu.edu">jbigham@cs.cmu.edu</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Date:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">4 November 2016 5:59:18 AM AEDT<br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>To:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Boris Veytsman <<a href="mailto:borisv@lk.net">borisv@lk.net</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Cc:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Volker Sorge <<a href="mailto:volker.sorge@gmail.com">volker.sorge@gmail.com</a>>,
<a href="mailto:ross.moore@mq.edu.au">ross.moore@mq.edu.au</a>, <a href="mailto:karl@freefriends.org">
karl@freefriends.org</a><br>
</span></div>
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<span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Subject:
</b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><b>Re: Making PDFs produced from Latex accessible</b><br>
</span></div>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">Yes, also happy for broader discussion to go to list.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But, would also like to come up with an initial solution with cost estimate, if that's a possibility. I may be able to help contribute or find funding as well, especially for specific goal of making the academic publications we're producing from Latex
accessible.<br>
<br>
-Jeff</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 1:32 PM, Boris Veytsman <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:borisv@lk.net" target="_blank">borisv@lk.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
VS> From: Volker Sorge <<a href="mailto:volker.sorge@gmail.com">volker.sorge@gmail.com</a>><br>
VS> Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2016 09:51:26 -0700<br>
<br>
VS> Having said that, I am still hoping that we can come up with a pragmatic<br>
VS> initial solution, and find funding for it, that will help authors with some<br>
VS> of the most important tasks, i.e., using the Google credo: "get out a beta<br>
VS> asap and then iterate". I think this is better achieved by a small group of<br>
VS> people, than on a public mailing list, which might dilute discussions.<br>
<br>
<br>
Ross, Volker, could you estimate the funding needs? I cannot promise<br>
anything, but if I had a number, I could start talking to the<br>
publishers.<br>
<br>
If you could write a one page summary for non-technical people: here<br>
is what we plan to do, here is how much money we need, this would<br>
help.<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
--<br>
Good luck<br>
<br>
-Boris<br>
<br>
Nothing is rich but the inexhaustible wealth of nature.<br>
She shows us only surfaces, but she is a million fathoms deep.<br>
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson<br>
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<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">==
<div>Associate Professor</div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Human-Computer Interaction Institute</span><br>
</div>
<div>Language Technologies Institute</div>
<div>Carnegie Mellon University</div>
<div><a href="http://jeffreybigham.com/" target="_blank">jeffreybigham.com</a></div>
</div>
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